36. Learning of Culture - Get some!

Culture - Learn it.

I haven't posted a blog for a little while, I had been trying to understand something about myself.
Learning a culture, of a distant land that we were once a part of. The only thing that gives me any insight to culture, apart from talking to the Irish, is letters and family paperwork, that directly replicates, what history has told. But with culture, comes heartache of somesort to the Irish.
Part of below, can be viewed as a "controversial" post, on learning what culture is.
But the whole idea of this post, is to explain, my opinions and outcomes after learning both sides of the culture's and what I am part of.

Family documents, opinions from other people (word of mouth and documented paperwork) and what history has been documented, gives or teaches me about the culture of the Irish.
The only thing missing, is being there in person to experience what I have learned.

In all the years I've studied on my family lines, one part that I keep trying to find, is Culture.
Culture, is a missing component to the family stories.
Hoping culture can teach or help me "tell a story" on why things happened. And as I've found out, you have to see both sides of a story to learn "Culture" - regardless if it touches on stirring the pot. And Ireland carries "culture" with a heavy heart. You wouldn't extract a true culture or a true enough answer from someone without, poking or prodding the English/Irish debate or to do with the rebellions or like of.
And what has intrigued me after watching a video today of certain 1916 events, is that you can't have a civil conversation about it, without a certain degree of angst coming up. This is where you find real culture.

Dad's side has been here in Australia from 1842 onwards, Mum's around mid 1850's.
Majority of both sides, had just missed the full effects of the Famine - both from Famine and Disease, but also escaped the Governmental idealogies of how they dealt with the Famine afterwards.
(I am so glad they missed both sides of it) But Mum's side did have connections to the after effects with the Famine (the handling of the landed estates and absentee landlord issue).

This Irish "Culture" - appears on both my family lines in Ireland. Mum's direct Maternal Protestant lineage clashes with a Catholic family, who had indirect "Nationalistic" tendancies. Dad's side carries a surname of domination of the Irish with Strongbow and later times they swap sides to fight against the English, but also carries a very heavy genetic connection to the deep South West territory of Ireland. Genetics have allowed me to explore a much more native connection to South Western Ireland than once thought. I am of the opinion, that we are "Gaelicised Normans" to Limerick, with some degree of confidence.
 
Also, I am in belief, that Dad's Maternal line carries a very strong North Irish/Gallowglass linked lineage through his Co.Cork Gallagher line. It is messing my thoughts up with his direct ancient Paternal lineage to Cork City / Co.Cork / Limerick. As 2 plausible Gallowglass families (McDonald and Calhoun clans) sit very close to our very defined - direct Paternal line in Limerick around the Norman Invasion period. These clans intersect with the Collins/ODonovan's of Limerick.

But what I found most interesting and profounding on both sides, is that many traditions, values or idealogies, were never passed down through the generations, since they left Ireland. I have tried to extract thoughts through the family, but it seems we lost most of our Irish culture in today's world.
My Grandfather never really talked about our Irish roots, but his Sister did. In the 60's and 70's, Dad's family tried to trace our roots, but hit quite a few dead ends with our Fitzgerald line. But we did have a hit with Dad's Paternal Grandmother's "Hatch" line (possible Cromwellian Planter family) and a Cork native Irish Sheehan line. But because the Fitzgerald lineage info, was not found or nothing of interest beyond late 1700's- Early 1800's, this may have forced them in to giving up "looking" for them?

Learning about Mum's Maternal Persse line (based on reasearch from Lady Gregory), I decided to finally approach the 1916 events in Ireland - The Easter Rising.
Simply, because I didn't know anything about it, but part of me was also lost in "why" do I need to learn of this event. I had put this to the side, mainly because I had no direct family involvement in this cause. But I found out later, how messy 1916 was and how it directly had an effect in Australia.
Lady Gregory's life, her comments and other people's perception of what happened is quite contrasting. Gregory came from a Protestant life, but around the 1916 events, her mind was filled with a lot of thoughts on siding with the martyr's. This is one main reason that inspired me to learn "why would someone do that". What changed her views? Was it Culture?
As an example, my Maternal MacNevin line, it has an Catholic Irish man becoming a Judge/Coroner in the Sydney and he judged everyone, without prejudice - regardless if you were Catholic or a Protestant in his court.

I recently attended a Irish International Conference in Melbourne, a few months ago, based upon the "Australian Perspective" of the 1916 Easter Rising. I went into this conference, with a completely open and an unbiased mind. I wanted to learn the details of it, without prejudice.

Even though I knew a lot of what I was going to learn, was "way over my head", I did it for myself to learn that word again - culture. I wanted to put myself in both shoes to understand what drove both sides into the awful mess and what inspired Yeates to write (or finish off ) his "A Terrible Beauty is Born".
This 2 day conference, opened my eyes to a very messy and complex insurrection that had far wider implications, than just taking the GPO.

Half a world away, it deeply and directly affected Australia and it created an after-effect too.
It split the views of Australian's and the Irish Immigrants, with Empire's strangehold hold with WW1.
It created political division and 2 referendums within the confines of this Southern land.
Parliament asked it's population to vote on a decison, it couldn't answer for itself.
Australia's population back then, had a lot of Irish in it. Part of which was Catholic.
Melbourne Archbishop - Dr Mannix split the Irish community on terms and differences he had, on what he called a "Trade War" (WW1). The complexity of this whole era, was compounded when the Australian Irish Catholic community, was asked to vote on participation via conscription with The Empire in WW1.
Dr Mannix was a changed man after the 1916 executions and he asked the Catholic's to vote "no" to conscription, simply because "Australia came first and the Empire second".
(applies to the context with the English vs Irish debate).

There was also an "after effect" to the above happenings. In the 1916 conference, it was found that quite a percentage of Australian born children, to Irish Catholic parents (after 1880), became radicalised about the Republic in Ireland.
Seinn Feinism or the likes of, was apparent and radicalised men were inciting "republicanism" within Australia. Some of which were jailed and known as the "Darlinghurst Seven".

Looking back on what I had learnt, I didn't agree with the insurrection, neither did the "majority" of Ireland. But I do agree on upholding a forced debate on National identity. Whether it be a republic or home rule.
Australia is in a Home Rule situation, but a republic discussion has popped up from time to time, but has been squashed everytime of it's appearance.
The problem about the debate issue, is that the British nature of debating will almost win hands down. And why we have this contiunal lingering problem. If the Irish want to beat them, you will have to enter a debate on their soil, on their terms and nail every part of the debate - including on not "selling out". But with debates, the only way to win, is to comprimise, so it's a catch 22 which way you go.
Collins was out-debated, because of the "bloodshed that will ensue", if he didn't agree to the English.
I would argue, if he had the attributes of a top barrister or a law maker, the outcome would have been different, but would have had some sort of bloodshed.
If Daniel O'Connell hadn't of killed John D'Esterre, would things have been different? It changed his views on bloodshed vs political gain (but there again, O'Connell sold out to the Whigs later in his political life).

The greatest part of learning about the events of 1916, is how many innocent people were killed (reports of how many vary, but lets point in the direction of about 400).
Because of a "statement" that the insurrection had to make, it's voice came at the price of the innocent people. And what hurt the most, whether the British or Irish killed them, was the death's of the innocent, that they were brushed underneath the carpet, like as if they didn't care. It completely struck a chord with me.
Even though I haven't read "everything" of Lady Gregory's views, I drew a thought to atleast understand if atleast she mentioned or recognised the innocent deaths. She did list the deaths in her writings, but still was not made to be a prominent issue of the cause.

Regardless of what I had written above, the key to understanding both sides, is their culture's.
And I am glad that I had the opportunity to understand them and the 1916 Easter Rising.

Get some culture and learn from it.

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35. Edward Worth Newenham (basic details and a heartfelt letter)

Edward Worth Newenham 1762-1832  (Eldest Son of Sir Edward and Lady Grace)

A lot of my Irish Family research comes from my Maternal side and it references the Newenham's.
They have so much information about them that co-incides with what family papers I have, you sort of have to document them. I show a lot about the Newenham's, mainly because of the people they connect to or have influenced. They are a great learning tool, to see what was happening in Ireland during the 18-19th century.

The greatest thing to do with their information, is to "play them off" against history, that is, try to understand their idealogies of their lives and see what history has to say about them.
I use their "good's and bad's", to see if their decisions changed Ireland for the better or worse.

So basically we have Sir Edward Newenham (6th GGF), staunch Protestant that was born in the era of "Protestant Ascendancy". He was born into this lifestyle, so he knew little of what it is to struggle (a basic interpretation).

His eldest son Edward Worth Newenham (5th GGF), born in 1762 and grew up under this same indoctrination of his Father. His views on Catholic vs Protestant are very evident around the 1820 era, when he left Ireland for Boulogne - France to get away from the Catholic uprisings. One such letter from him expresses great displeasure, with the Catholics getting power within Ireland.
I found great pain in reading this particular sentence of words, because it was "one sided" imho.

Though as this maybe a small pocket of "distaste", he had other things going on with the family.

Edward Worth married Elizabeth Persse (d. of Col. William Persse and Sarah Blakeney of Roxborough Co Galway) in March of 1787.
They had 11 children, 8 survived infancy but only 4 or 5 survived into adulthood.

• Edward Worth served in the military, and was captured in 1805 whilst off the coast of France. He was "voluntarily" imprisoned in Verdun-France by Napoleon's Forces, he died in Verdun
• William Persse, also served in the military, fought many gallant battles and died in England. Was personally known to Admiral Hood.
• Charles Burton only lived 9 days
• Robert Burton served in the military as well, but his most gallant effort, was being on the battlegrounds of Waterloo, during Napoleon's fall in 1815
• Eliza died at the age of 9
• Henry Hood (4th GGF), came to Australia in 1856 and never served in the military, died in Melbourne 1895
• Grace Anna, nothing known
• Anna Eliza (not shown) died at the age of 12 in France 

The concept of this post, is that I came across a short letter from Edward Worth depicting quite a story. Even though the letter does not say much, it's a huge letter in discovering things about the family. This letter is quite defining on what was to happen with the 3rd surviving son - Robert.
I wanted to show, that underneath this business man, was a Father looking to protect his Son(s).

When Edward Worth and Elizabeth were married, as part of their marriage settlement, Edward Worth inherited lands around Tipperary (Shallee and a few others). These lands were Coal/Lead and Tin mining areas. Edward Worth was in charge of a Colliery in around the early 1800's.
I do not know yet, how good or bad he ran these mining operations, but I have seen some issues with the properties.

Edward Worth would bounce around towns, dealing with the law and also this mining business, whilst what looks like that Elizabeth and the children stayed in around Co. Galway. It is noted that Elizabeth was staying with her brother Henry Stratford Persse, from time to time.

Edward Worth, was quite pained by his Father antics, as they did have quite a family rift that went on for many years. Edward Worth looks like he wouldn't deal with his Father anymore, due to his unscrupulous spending habits.
This may have shone the light on this family, that whilst they may have been "land rich", they were also "cash poor".
Many letters around the very early 1800's, depict that Edward Worth, was almost broke. In the early years of research, I found it very hard to understand, with so much land at hand, why so poor?

This one letter, is one of a few around the era of 1810 and Edward Worth is trying to setup his children's lives. These few letters of this period, constantly comment of some sons in the military and some sort of "pining" for atleast one child to get a Government job.
It took me a few times of re-reading the letter, that there was so much of a story unfolding, it defined a lot of detail without saying it.
Edward Worth notes that he served in the Rebellion period (I gather this was referring to 1798) as a magistrate. And that his "3rd Son - Robert" is of great interest to obtaining a Government position. He also notes that his 2 eldest sons (Edward Worth and William Persse) are already in the Military and wants to push Robert into Government, not war.
You can see a mining/business man, change into becoming a Father.

The back story dialogue to this letter and in particular, this period of letters, was Edward Worth's Son's.
Edward Worth Jnr, was caught up in a shipwreck off the French Coast in 1805 and placed into Voluntary Confinement - under Napoleon's orders - in Verdun. And that his 2nd son William Persse, was almost killed 2 or 3 times over, during some intense battles at sea. You can really see the sense that the Father is now looking out for his family. He didn't want Robert to follow his elder siblings footsteps in the Military. He noted this many times, but in a nice enough tone.
So this letter was written in 1810, but the next story we hear of Robert is 5 years later. We see that Robert is stamping his authority of "victory", on the battlegrounds of Waterloo in 1815. He actually helped defeat Napoleon and what I can interpret, avenged his Uncle's death. How can this be?
Either Robert went against his Father's advice, or Edward Worth relented and allowed him to join the military.

I haven't found any letter or documentation yet, to show what Edward Worth wrote about his 4th Son - Henry Hood Newenham (4th GGF). But as Henry was born in 1805, he was too young to join the Forces. In a sense, of all people to be named after, it was a Lord Hood, Admiral of the Navy.
So maybe he could be attached to the Military only by name?
It seems that what I know about Henry's life, is that his Father must of finally made the point with "a son", to not go to war or join the military. Research on Henry's life, has failed to show any documented military training as of yet. And it's probably why Henry was placed in Government jobs in Melbourne (after 1856).

In an almost identical case in previous years, Edward Worth's younger brother - also a Robert (O'Callaghan Newenham), was vouched for by his Father and Mother's heartfelt letters to the US Congress and it even involved George Washington. They wanted to obtain a job for Robert, as a US Consul officer - based in France - under Benjamin Franklin. But it was a lost cause, as Robert couldn't have the position unless he or someone of the family, became a US Citizen. He never did become a US Citizen, so he didn't get the job.

Now, I believe the letter was written at a Property, directly opposite the "Mansion House" (Lord Mayor's Residence) on Dawson Street, Dublin. I am not sure if "Sandy Mt" is the house name or the district of Dublin.


The letter was addressed to John Foster.
I am assuming by my research, this is or could be a relative of John Foster 1st Baron Oriel
This letter is brought to you by : Viscount Masserene and Ferrard  -  Deputy Keeper of the Records, Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI)

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34. Images Tell Stories - Part 4

Mr Thomas Edwin MacNevin - Police Magistrate, Coroner & Author
 
Thomas Edwin MacNevin P.M
1844-1907

Last night, I finally found him!!!
I found an image of a family member that I have been searching for over 5 years. A "eureka" moment.

Born in Dublin - Ireland under a Catholic following, Thomas's parents were Richard Charles MacNevin & Julia Waring.
Thomas was born a few months before a very difficult time in Ireland, The Great Hunger or The Famine. I was to learn a while ago, how much Thomas's Father applied himself to one of Ireland's greatest tragedy's.

Richard was a noted Solicitor/Barrister and was based at 8 Middle Gardiner Street. One could only image, that things didn't hit them as hard, as it was in the Western part of Ireland.

Richard wrote a book, on how to deal with the lands and or the absentee landlords in a civil lawful way. It was a guide on how to sell or obtain lands through the judicial process.
I am in 2 minds on how the book was written, I don't know if Richard wrote it from his heart and the best for Ireland (or the UK), or if he wrote it to help out the Landlords of both sides of the UK (did the hierarchy of Parliament get in Richards ear??).

The resultant of the Famine, created a mass evacuation of people leaving such a green land and moving offshore to escape it's horrid conditions. If you stayed or couldn't leave, you faced almost a horrid death by starvation, or indeed put to work in building infrastructure to earn your keep. A nation's population was culled by a disease - and yes, by all accounts, the Government at the time are also to blame for such a tragedy, by not helping it's people in Ireland.
Thomas's Father and Grandfather (Daniel), were very deeply rooted to the Catholic Cause, as they were very close to the Great Emancipator - Daniel O'Connell. Assisting him in his adventures, whether it be politically or by friendly motives. Towards the end of Daniel O'Connell's life, the MacNevin's turned against him, almost in despising/disowning him. I am trying to see if anything of this nature, filtered down to Thomas, from his Father and Grandfather. Thomas would have been too young to understand it, but he would have learnt about in in future years.

Thomas's Uncle - Thomas MacNevin Esq, was a Poet and an Irish Nationalist, who formed part of the Movement known as "Young Ireland". He worked with Davis, Duffy, Dillon and a few others to name a few. But his Uncle Thomas, died just before the failed 1848 uprising (he was mentally affected by Davis's death).

I am still learning about the resultant of the Famine with this family, but these MacNevin's are helping me in such a way, that it is going much deeper into the Core, of what was going on.
Famine, Daniel O'Connell, Young Ireland Movement, it's all there with this family.

Thomas's upbringing in the Solicitor/Barrister/Law world, was probably his ultimate building blocks to his career as a Judge later in life. Nothing is known about his early life in Dublin.

Whilst in Ireland, Thomas's mother (Julia) dies and Richard remarries to Anne Hamilton. It wasn't until a few months ago, with some help, that I finally figured out where the 2 ladies fitted in to Thomas's life as initial thoughts that we were descended off Anne.

In 1864, his Father - Richard dies and it somehow seems that Thomas decides to head to Australia. Not sure why, but can only imagine that his stepmother may have decided he needed more of a Manly influence?
With help, it was told to me that Thomas's Maternal Uncle - Caulfield Waring, was in Queensland at the time.
This was the area that Thomas first landed.
Soon after he landed in Queensland, he meets Edith Ashworth Snape and marries her.
Thomas and Edith then move to Sydney about a year after they were married and it's where their children are brought up.
They have 7 Children, but only 5 survive childhood. Richard Thomas, Charles Edwin Ashworth, Edith Mary, William Augustine and Philip Bowen. A boy and a girl were born, but I think they may been stillborns?

In 1889, Edith died.

But just 2-3 years later, Thomas remarried to Alice Maud Juckes. Believe the marriage produced no children.

Philip Bowen MacNevin
with his daughter Dorothy May MacNevin
(My Great Grandmother)

The youngest son of Thomas & Edith, Philip Bowen, is my 2nd Great Grandfather and in a way, he is a very mysterious person.
I am in belief that Philip and the family, may have become estranged, as I can find no communication with them, during his life. Philip never became what his Father was. Philip seemed to hit the Shipping/Naval style of life as a waiter/pantry hand/labourer of sorts, both on local and international ships. I can trace a point in time, where Philip was in Sydney around the time of his Father's death, but that's about it.

Throughout his career, Thomas E. MacNevin, becomes quite involved with the judicial system whilst in Sydney. He almost gets the Under Secretary job to the Head of the Justice Department, but is overlooked for that role. He becomes a Police Magistrate and a Coroner. He writes a booklet, to help the Police and Coroner's on how to do their jobs. I'm pretty certain he learnt this skill from his Father.
His court appearances were mainly at the Parramatta Court House, but he did spend time at other, closely located Court Houses. 

Something that I have learnt a lot about and has been sitting in the wind with this line of MacNevin's, is that I don't see any sentiments of hard core Irish Nationalism coming through. In all of the court cases I have seen with Thomas presiding, none of the Irish Nationalism or Young Irelander sentiments, come through on his decisions. I am trying to differentiate Thomas and his Father, with his Uncle on being part of the Young Ireland movement.
It seems that Thomas Edwin, most definitely held un-biased opinions or decisions with the court cases.
Almost as if both Protestant and Catholic persons that were tried in his court, were treated equally in handing down a sentence.
Thomas was held in very high regard with his peers.

Thomas died in 1907, in Sydney. He is buried in Rookwood Cemetery.

The historical significance to this family, is quite mind boggling. And the countless hours of research to find them, is all worth it.

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33. Direct Paternal Lineage - Native Irish With A Twist

This is where DNA technology, has placed my direct Paternal line.

I have drawn up this image, to show how DNA technology has placed my direct paternal line, in connection with an ancient Irish Dynasty called "Ui' Fidgenti".
This data was based from 2 sources - South Irish DNA project and Ytree.net.

The actual image is from Ytree.net, you can see that here : A-88 Tree

The A-88 tree is based under the South Irish DNA - Irish Type II - CTS4466 grouping.
The O'Donovan's and O'Collins/Collins form part of the Uí Fidgenti dynasty of Limerick.

The only link in historical references, between the Fitzgerald's and the O'Donovan's/Collins, refers to the disintegration of the dynasty, by the Normans (after 1169 AD), but more placed around the 13th century. Though the dating of the Y-DNA does point, to around the time, when the Norman Invasion occurred (with an estimation of about a century or so, either side of it).

There is a basic historical reference point mentioned in the "County of Limerick" Wikipedia page.
It outlines the connection to an particular era with the Fitzgerald's and the Uí Fidgenti, but does not mention the exactness of the faction of Fitzgerald.

It also has an open interpretation, that the Fitzgerald's may have taken advantage of internal wars and or in particular, the aftermath of it. The most consistent information via my family's Y-DNA, is a close relationship with the Fitzgibbon's and the O'Hearns.

So what we have, is a basic historical reference and a scientific reference - pointing to the same result. But we need to do more research, why we reference the Munster area.

One of the most interesting things (and I suppose quite confusing), is there is an involvement with the Dal Cais people (Dal Cais people are classified as Co. Clare/O'Brien/Brian Boru - or in the genetic term of L226/Irish Type III DNA).
These type of people created some sort of Northern resistance and seemed to push factions of families southwards into Northern Limerick - possibly around 1000AD era. As I have an O'Hearn name in my 111 Marker, their connection to us, seems to fit this trend and may have been pushed South, by the Co. Clare MacNamara's. The recorded placement of the ancient O'Hearn's, was around Sixmilebridge, Co.Clare
The O'Hearn name, in correlation to my Y-DNA, does not support the (Co. Clare/Northern) L226 DNA, but they do support the Southern (Munster) CTS4466 DNA. It suggests and adds weight to the argument, that there was a settlement of O'Hearn's in Munster - most possibly around the Uí Fidgenti area of Limerick.

I have 2initial thoughts with the internal wars around this era :

• Did the Fitzgerald's invade Limerick just before the Uí Fidgenti disintegration and only accelerate the ending of it?
                                                                  OR
  
• Did the Fitzgerald's invade at the end of the disintegration and take empty lands by default?
  
  

Some of my autosomal DNA matches, have Limerick and Far West Cork (Skibbereen) connections, involving the Collins surname. Which plausibly co-incides when the O'Donovan's/Collins people, that were pushed into South West Cork, by the Normans (The Fitzgerald's).
I have not tied up, why my Y-DNA references here, as I still don't know where my surname takes me before the very late 1700's era.
With 100% certainty, I know we were based in Cork City, of the South Parish Church of St. Finbarrs (RC) atleast to 1807. There is some sort of flip flopping between religions, as the Irish Emmigrant - Thomas Fitzgerald, landing in Australia in 1841, was Protestant and stayed Protestant until his death in 1859.

There is also, quite a Scottish flavour to the Y-DNA as well. Is it Gallowglass???
Were they the "Scots/Irish" around 800-1000 AD? Still trying to find how much Viking is there too.
I still don't know how to interpret this. A lot of Autosomal matches between Myself and my Father, show a strong trend with North Irish people under the M222 Haplogroup. This maybe totally unrelated, but it's quite the dominant haplogroup, in closer Autosomal matches.

The only way I can somewhat take out of this, it shows that we seemed to immerse ourselves with the Natives. Could this be showing the "after the invasion" effects of  family immersion to local society?
And, is this where the "Female Fitzgerald" story is coming from?

Jury is still out if this "immersion with society", with my paternal ancestor, was the product of an illegitimate birth or was it the product of a sanctioned marriage?

Pretty intense stuff.

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32. Genetical warfare

My Genetical information should be having an internal struggle with itself.

Coming up to 2 years since I have done some DNA research. As much as I understand part of it, the ties to historical events is becoming quite clear. Except I just can't grasp the intensity of what it's trying to say. I am a little overwhelmed by what it could prove, in a historical sense.
I am certain my DNA is messed up and is having a war between itself.
Basically my Mother's DNA served Ireland in a politically and "justice by the courts" way, whereas my Father's DNA is showing Irish "justice by the sword" way.

In the past few months, I have found something deep that is happening, finding quite the quirkyness to what my DNA story tells.

So far my Y-DNA, is telling a story of ancient historical significance to around the Norman Invasion.
It maybe also telling the story, that I may have had a Paternal lineage, that was in Ireland "before" the Norman Invasion (as mentioned before, that most possibly our Fitzgerald link was a Female). Everything on what I am seeing, tells me about something happening between the Scottish/Welsh and Native Irish around 1000 years ago.
It was something big and it was happening in the Province of  Munster.

The Fitzgibbon surname is still quite clearly the ultimate link, to finding my roots, as there is no definable "Fitzgerald" there. Native Irish also entangle in there as well.
I am ultimately trying to learn, if I can find a faction of Fitzgerald that I stem off. And are we the only ones of the line? Are we off a cadet branch or off an illegitimate line?

When you read historical accounts of what your surname was part of around the Norman Invasion period, well pretty much was the dominant invader to the natives of Ireland (FitzGerald and FitzStephen aiding Diarmaid Mac Murchadha's cause, of trying to reclaim his kingdom of Leinster). Remember Strongbow wasn't on the first invasion of 1169, as King Henry II - held him back as a part of discipline for siding against him.
Australia's European settlement of 1788, shows a very similar link, to being a dominated by the British (some would say invaders, but there is an open interpretation, if they were here to fight or to colonise with a reduced use of arms). Though the 1788 event, wasn't about coming to Australia to claim back it's "lost kingdom". It also had the intent of moving the trouble makers out of England.

But a few centuries over time, these invaders of Ireland, became part of the natives and immersed themselves in their culture. They then started to rebel against the Crown.
This is why the Fitzgerald name is known for being "more Irish than the Irish".

And my Y-DNA speaks in "volumes" to this story of nativity. It doesn't speak strongly of Viking, it doesn't speak Welsh or English, but does speak Native Irish/Scot. We land in a small pocket of Galloglass names that had English names, but was very close to the native Collins/O'Donovan's.

But again, from what I have seen and been told about with my surname, it still should not tie to Ireland or it's nativity, but should be more of middle Europe. This is why I am trying to see if this male that the Y-DNA is speaking of, is some form of Irish Native / Scot, rather than of Welsh origin.

Now, some of my Autosomal DNA matches, tell quite a connecting story. It is becoming apparently clear, that my parents DNA is "entangled" between themselves. Except they are not closer than 5th cousins.
I have questioned the genetical information between my parents DNA, because they indeed share some of the same DNA matches under the 5th Cousin. I have constantly thought that my parents DNA samples were mixed up, because of the oddity of matches. Certain names that should match my Father's family names, were matching my Mother's DNA and vice versa.
Majority of the links are Irish, but I have a hunch that some lead to British as well. Possibly from the "Planter" era.
It's kind of difficult to identify these links, when both your parents match 1 person and you're not sure which one is more dominant. And is the link British or Irish related.

Stories that are currently dominant.

• Both my autosomal DNA and my Father's autosomal DNA speak volumes in our top matches to an unusual Scottish/Viking connection, except I don't know which line this extends on. Our Y-DNA shows this story to a cousin branch of the Ui' Fidgenti dynasty of the Collins/O'Donovan's off Limerick/West Cork - which does have Norse connotations.
  Nothing is proven just yet, just very close and very circumstantial.
  Ironically, the Fitzgerald's pushed these 2 families out of Limerick into South West Cork (Skibbereen) during the 13th century - some of the autosomal DNA is picking the Limerick/Skibbereen places via both myself and my Father - This page explains this story - Go to "Later History" part

• The most interesting thing that I can see, is that we don't link directly to a Fitzgerald line in our autosomal matches, but almost every lead in our top autosomal matches has somewhat of a Fitzgerald there. Quite ironically, my Mother has a Fitzgerald there (Gedmatch) and I am trying to see if the link ties back to her Blood family of Co. Clare.
  The Fitzgerald line that we know of, seems like the DNA has only been passed on by the other parent/partner and we don't know the name of that partner.
  As our Fitzgerald line came here in 1841, I am not sure if we became partially diluted as such to the DNA. This is why I have to use other peoples links to help me either to eliminate or prove certain scenarios.
  
• Part of my research is trying to see if there is any evidence that I can tie my Mother's Newenham/Persse/Blood lines (of Co. Galway & Co. Clare) to my Father's Fitzgerald's. Whilst there is inter-connectivity in written history, I have not proven it beyond reasonable doubt.
   
• My Mother's Paternal line is unknown from before 1870's. The Booth name (Mum's Paternal Grandmother's maiden name) has a genetical match with Dad. Dad's maternal side has British links and I am thinking there is bound to be some sort of crossover there. Yorkshire, is the base of research.

In a short while, I'll be meeting up with a fellow who shares this ancient DNA story with us, back to the Ui' Fidgenti dynasty. It will possibly include a story that we lived just 1-2 km apart about 20 years ago and ultimately showing that we would have crossed paths many times without ever knowing of our ancient genetical paths.

The world is a small place.

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31. The Hasler's - Dublin, Galway and Melbourne Part 4 (Final)

1897 - The era that changed the Hasler's and the fall of Johnstone O'Shannessy & Co.

Since the last post, a little story has evolved that has helped understand what happened to the Hasler's and what the Photographic empire they had created, went through.
Late 1897, was a pivotal year for both Frederick and George's families, that would ultimately change them forever more.

Just before I touch on 1897, a few newspaper clippings have emerged and with the help of the State Library of Victoria. These few events have opened up new view, to what was going on in a pivotal time of the Company's story.

In 1895, the Johnstone O'Shannessy empire had seen many changes in their business. They were surviving through a recession around this time. Portrait photography - IMHO - waned, but for those with money, they did still acquire photographs for their families.
From what I can gather, I feel Emily Hasler did still contribute to the business itself, by controlling it's direction on where it was headed, well she was a major Shareholder in the company in anyways. This period was hard to figure out if either George or Emily was "steering the ship".
Up to this point, I considered George as the Captain, but I soon learned that Emily was still around.

In September 1895, Johnstone O'Shannessy, opened a Tea Room on their First Floor of their "234 Collins Street" address. It was named "Melbourne Tea Rooms". The below newspaper clipping shows that Emily is at the forefront of this venture. It included quite the "Socialite" society.

Ethel & Muriel Hasler
Circa late 1880's - early 1890's

 This Tea Room was opened up about 3-4 years after Hopetoun Tea Rooms located within "The Block" arcade (just 100 metres down the road). From what I can gather, these Tea Rooms, were the Women's variant of the "Men's Smoking Room's". A perfect place to host a gathering of women, to fulfill their social side, whilst their Husband's worked. Emily's social side has now come out to play. It also explained a much earlier period, why George and Emily's 2 Daughters - Ethel and Muriel, were well within the social circle and were quite the musician's. Both girls played musical instruments and put on shows, during Emily's social gatherings.

12th Sept 1895 - Melbourne Punch

This clipping is dated 12 Sep 1895 and shows what happened during this event. What surprised me much in this write up, was the people who were there. Relatives of Nicholas Fitzgerald (believe it to be of the Castlemaine Brewery Fitzgerald's?) and relatives of Sir Charles Gavan Duffy.
These 2 families would have been very well known to the Hasler's, particularly back in Ireland.
Duffy had sat for a portrait done by Johnstone O'Shannessy as well.

It seems that in these times of change, it does look like the Hasler's had to drum up a bit more business, in which they had to offer what was more of a social side to the business. The social side led to more opportunity to "coerce" people to have a portrait sitting.
This is what I see as diversification or in a way, it could be by just plain marketing your merchandise, to increase sales. For instance, Sir Arthur Snowden had an image done by the studio in 1895.

A couple of questions went through my mind, on what allowed them to reformat the studios on the First Floor?
Did business drop off that much, that they had to diversify and incorporate a Tea Room to get an influx of people through the doors? Or was it done purely to co-incide with the Social Society? Testing times, but these 2 questions remain unanswered.

21st May 1896 - Melbourne Punch

13th Aug 1896 - Melbourne Punch

Entertainment in the form of acting plays out fitted in with the Studio's social society.

22nd Oct 1896 - Melbourne Punch

Everything was going according to plan, until late 1896. It seems by this newspaper clipping, that the Tea Room business as such, was either "Sold Off" or mutually agreed upon, to let someone else take control of it.

From October 1896 to about mid 1897, nothing much was happening with the company. It was a bit odd to see the company offloading the Tea Room circle.
Another paper clipping shows the Company had "complied " with a Government Act about "Proprietary Companies" in May of 1897.
 
A few months later, revealed the story.
On the 10th of August 1897, a sad day for the Hasler's. George Henry Massey Hasler, passed away from a long illness (cancer). By reading the timelines of the Tea Rooms, you could conclude they knew George was ill and they needed to slow down a bit (Hence the sell off of the Tea Rooms).

At this time period, it was not known where his brother, Frederick, was. We can only conclude that Frederick was in Melbourne and taking images at home. There is no mention of Frederick in anything associated with the company at this time. But he was definitely in the background.

After George's death, it shows that Emily was still controlling the business, of course now much older, I do believe that she did make some initial decisions that changed the company's future.
From what I can gather, George died just a few years too early. Emily was to face some decisions that ultimately placed the company in to a downward trend.

What is known (by later documents), is that Emily placed the company in to the hands of her eldest daughter Ethel and her son-in-law Rupert De Clare Wilks (they were married 2 years after George's death). In a manner of a natural progression, the "family hand down" of the company to Ethel and rightfully so. Even though this sounded good to pass down the company, it was not the best business decision for the longevity of the company. I understand why Emily passed down the company, but Rupert, was a solicitor not a photographer. And it shows in time, that the company lost itself or lost it's direction after George's death. The passion of Photography seemed to wane.

In the midst of this, Frederick still had not seen direct action with the company. I just don't see how Frederick was not able to assist with the Melbourne Studio, as he was quite the proficient Photographer. Unless they were ok and thought they could hold their own?
A decision that still baffles me and just after George's death, we see Frederick and the family placed in Adelaide, South Australia.
Frederick was widowed for many years at this stage, so going to Adelaide with the kids, could be seen as some sort of adventure maybe?
I was to learn later, that Frederick took up a photographic business there, in around Rundle Mall. He worked in his own company that was also somehow intertwined with a photographic business called "Wivell & Co", which was also associated with the Eureka Photo Studio.
Frederick became a photographer/enlarger of photos within this company for a few years. The below images depict this Adelaide story.
In learning more about this Adelaide story, we can only conclude that George proposed a partnership with Wivell & Co and acquired some form of business with them, well before 1897. I suspect that's why there is an image of George in Eureka's image.
Just after George's death, it can be concluded that Emily and or Frederick came to some sort of mutual decision about Frederick managing or assisting with the the Adelaide "Eureka" store.

Frederick J Hasler - Eureka Photo Studio's circa. early 1900s

We know after this time period, Melbourne was facing a huge change to the photographical world. The very early 1900's seen an influx of handheld cameras that was aimed primarily at the "Women of the house", so that they could photograph their children. Ridding the necessity of dressing up for a formal sitting at a studio.

George Hasler circa 1890's

This was the game changer for Johnstone O'Shannessy. Neither Emily nor Rupert made plans to avert this or even "go with the the flow". Nothing has been found so far, to suggest that they changed the company's way of business, to suit the new ways of Photography.

In early 1905, a meeting was convened by Rupert and shows that there were plans to "liquidate" the company. By late 1905, the company that was originally headed by Henry James Johnstone and Emily O'Shannessy, known under the name of Johnstone O'Shannessy & Co. was wound up. A photographic business stemming from the early 1860's till 1905, had come to an end.

It is believed that the lease of the Collins Street address was up in 1905 and the photographic company allowed it to be expired.
In my opinion, the resultant death of George in 1897, poor decisions in a every changing photographical world and a lease expiration due, allowed the company to be liquidated.
At the liquidation sales, it seems a person bought the "brand name" of Johnstone O'Shannessy and rebadged it as Johnstone O'Shannessy & Falk. From 1905 till the late 1920's, this business was carried on by different management at a different studio. The building at 234 was demolished and replaced with "234 Howey Place", which was demolished again and made way for the "Sportsgirl Centre" and then renamed and remodeled as "twothirtyfour" today.

Frederick moved back to Melbourne where he died in 1920.  Emily died about a year later.
Frederick & wife Eliza together with George & wife Emily, are both buried in the St. Kilda Cemetery in Melbourne.

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30. The Hasler's - Dublin, Galway and Melbourne Part 3

1869 + - The early Australian years

3rd GGF - Frederick John Hasler, left Liverpool on the 2nd of February 1869, bound for Melbourne, Australia, aboard the S.S Great Britain. He landed on either the 8th or 9th of April, in Melbourne.

His diary of the journey to Australia, depicts some boredom and to keep himself amused, he would be chatting with the Girls, playing the Piano/Accordion, in a "Sing-A-Long" type of thing, drank a bit of alcohol etc. He noted the weather, which was kind of rough from the first half of the trip.
There were a few events on the ship, that show a bit of reality, one man jumped overboard and was lost to the sea (something about a woman and a child involved with him) and a lot of people were sick.
One man died and was "committed to the deep". A child died as well. A horse also died and that was also thrown overboard, but Frederick wrote it like it was quite a fun thing to do. He wrote "It was quite jolly". There was some sort of procession with the ships crew, almost like paying homage to the Horse, whilst burying it at sea?
Frederick also noted a few fights that broke out or rowdy behavior was had, but mainly it involved too much alcohol. He also had a few kisses from some girls and one "fell out" with him, because he didn't "walk with her" upon the deck.
In his writings, he doesn't mention on what awaits him in Australia, either in a photographical sense or life wise. The diary only depicts what happened during the trip, not any thoughts of what was to come. I have found this quite odd, as if he's been to Australia before and knows what it's all about.
Either that or George gave him a heads up? But it is apparent that he speaks a bit "nonchalant" about the trip until the last week.
He does not disclose any family whatsoever, that is back home in Ireland or on the ship.
Not even his brother George.
We suspect George is currently in Melbourne awaiting for his Brother's arrival and that no other Hasler or relavtive, is traveling with Frederick.

His last few writings were :
7-4-1869 - "Fine and a head wind, screw down, a regular Australian day. Getting ready for landing, expect to see land tomorrow, bed at 8"
8-4-1869 - "Land in view at 5 o'clock, great excitement, very fine. Another child sick. Just come to "The Heads". Pilot. "
"The Heads" is known as the opening to Port Phillip Bay - a 3km wide opening"

25th Sep 1871 - Melbourne Argus

Not much is known on his early days of landing in Melbourne, but we do find him in the first instance, 2 years later in 1871. He was part of the Albert Club (Rowing) and he is seated in the boat with his "future" brother-in-law, Edward Persse Newenham. Since finding this record of Frederick, it paved the way to understanding that his Rowing life from the Galway days of rowing the River Corrib, had also reached the shores of Melbourne. Frederick was quite competitive and would race upon the Yarra River many times. The many reports of Frederick with Rowing, showed quite a sportsman and it was also seemed quite a passion.

6 months after this report, on the 6th of March 1872, Frederick John Hasler, married Eliza Persse Newenham (eldest child of Henry Hood Newenham and Annie Persse).

To put this union into a perspective, Frederick and his family lived in Galway City. Frederick's parents lived on Nun's Island.
Eliza's Parents were Persse family relatives (1st Cousins). Henry Hood Newenham and Annie Persse, were "nephew/niece" to Henry Stratford Persse, that ran the Nuns Island "Persse Distillery".
So in a sense, their Galway roots had replanted in Melbourne.

Frederick and Eliza, went on to have 7 children, their first child died as an infant, but the rest survived into adulthood.

During this time, Frederick's profession was a photographer. His brother George was also in Melbourne at this stage, as a professional photographer. We only see evidence of these boys in the photographic point of view, well after 1869. George first then many years later of Frederick.

(Back story dialogue) In late 1869, we can see George becoming a manager and a partner of the already established, "Johnstone O'Shannessy & Co." photographic firm. This was originally partnered by an Irish lady from Co. Galway - Emily O'Shannessy (E.F.K O'Shaughnessy) and British born Henry James Johnstone. These 2 people originally created the company located at "3 Bourke Street East", in the mid 1860's, when George became part of the company in late 1869. The brand name of the company did not change to reflect George's involvement, but it seems that from later documentation, that George took more of the business on, whereas Emily reduced her workload.
It is noted that Henry was the primary photographer, Emily took pictures mainly of the women.
And Henry was quite "flamboyant". George was a manager, but then became a photographer.
Part of me, had a thought that a previous photographic sitting of the Newenham's, in the Johnstone O'Shannessy studio, may have allowed the Hasler's to meet/greet them. As my 3rd GGM was photographed in the studio somewhere between 1868 and 1872. But this is a co-incidental thought, as it was plausible for them to meet, but it is not proven that this was the case.

9th Sep 1871 - The Australiasian

George married Emily in 1871.
They had 2 children, Ethel and Muriel.

Frederick & Eliza's Son - Edgar Claude Hasler c.1877

What has created quite a unknown story, is that Frederick technically wasn't part of this business as such. Frederick seems to have stabilised himself, at his own City store located at 96 Elizabeth Street (I am not sure if this address, was affected by the 1889 address changes, by the City of Melbourne).
He was at this address around 1875-1880.
By family records, Frederick's family lived in Gurner Street, St.Kilda, which co-incidentally happens to be the address of a Patrick Hasler, who also was a photographer around this time.
As far as I am aware, there was no-one known to the family, by the name of Patrick and no family records exist, to suggest that there was ever a Patrick. So it's quite suggestive that Frederick created a pseudonym or it was an unknown relative, as Patrick was only there at Gurner Street for about a year.

23rd Mar 1878 - The Australiasian

In the mid to late 1870s and a touch of the 1880's, Frederick was noted to have been a Rowing photographer. Many of his images were in the studio of people posing, or it was Rowing based.

He was the official photographer of the "Intercolonial 8's", that was set on a rivalry between New South Wales and Victoria. However, these images cannot be found and may be placed with a club or historical society (if the still survive).

There is some form of minor collaboration by Frederick, with Johnstone O'Shannessy, but nothing by any large proportion, or to note him by. So we can only go on information that shows Frederick and George, did lead separate lives in the photography world.
There is a reference as well, to Frederick running a photographic studio from Octavia Street, St.Kilda from 1885-1889, we can only assume that he closed up Elizabeth Street address and brought the studio to his home, which seems the case.
You could assume that his growing family needed attention through the "growing up" part of life, so we can assume that he did bring the studio home because of family needs.




In 1891, Frederick's wife - Eliza (Persse Newenham) Hasler, passed away from a "long illness".
Frederick was left with 6 kids under 17. Not much is known after this period until 1897.

1897 was to be a big year for the Hasler's and it would challenge them, like no other year.

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29. The Hasler's - Dublin, Galway and Melbourne Part 2

The Galway Years (before 1869) and travel to Melbourne - Australia 

Hasler Brother's - Melbourne - After April 1869

Images of people or places, say one thing "A picture tells a thousand words".
Well, this is much more than just the colloquial saying.

It not only depicts a Family of 2 Irish Brothers, it depicts a Photographic Empire that is about to happen and it depicts a future that will change Melbourne's history from the late 1860's till about 1905, then a reincarnation till about 1920 - but you see, not many people know about them or more so, about this photographic empire.
And when you dig further into these boys backgrounds, you get much more than what's portrayed here.

They are the Hasler Brother's, from Galway City.
Younger Brother - George Henry Massey Hasler, to the left and elder brother - Frederick John Hasler to the right.
Frederick is my 3rd GGF (b. circa 1838), George a 3rd GGUncle (b. 1841)
Frederick and George, were sons of William Benjamin Hasler and Hannah Scott.
They also had a Sister - Olivia Mary Hasler, who died in Ireland.

It is quite possible that William and Hannah moved from the East Coast (Dalkey, Dublin) or indeed Co. Wexford to meet their life's journey in the City of Galway.

But that is a suggestive comment, as it isn't fully known how their lives were shaped before the 1850's. What is known, that the relatives of William are based in Dalkey, Dublin.
William, being one of many Grandsons of Sir John Hasler (Chamberlain to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland - during the late 1700's), had lots of family relatives in Dalkey. But I don't know what made him move from the East and head to Galway.

We don't know what was going on in these boys lives from their infant years, or even much of the family's lives before 1859, only information or family stories, flowed after that point.
There is a suggestion that William was part of the family's plot in Co. Wexford, but I still don't have conclusive information why they may have been there. Whitehall House has some connection as well. But there is suggestions that William was a "Civil Servant" at one stage, whether it be in Wexford or Galway, I am not sure.
There is a William Hasler that's noted as a farmer, as I found an Irish "Reproductive Loan" in Williams name. But I am not sure if this is our William. Same time, same place, but I cannot depict a poor Civil Servant, unless he fell on hard times?

Frederick c.late 1850's / early 1860's
(His Hair seems to be setup up for a Top Hat)

Signature on the back of the Images

Knowing this Hasler Family is based in Galway City, we can identify what Frederick's life may have been like, from Historical events. We find him being based in 18 Dominick Street as a Photographer around the mid/late 1850's. He would take family photographs, within this studio and was possibly known to be a sub-contractor to take photo's of Galway Town (and various areas) during this time.
Chethams Library's Flickr Page :  suggests there may have been involvement, with one or both of the Hasler boys. I have a family photo, which is an "exact" image, of the one depicted in Chetham's Library Collection (Galway Album 64). Located here is my info on the Hasler's : Hasler Photography and Related

We know that Frederick also was a keen sportsman.
He became a Rower of the Corrib Rowing Club, may have been a Foundation member as well.

Frederick would have been very well accustomed to rowing up and down the Corrib, right past the Persse's Nun's Island Distillery buildings, in which he has at a later date, a surprising link back here.
What is also surprising with this Persse link, is that Frederick's Father - William, died in 1859 around Nuns Island. A death notice, placed in a paper, showed that he died in "Presentation Street", but his Death Certificate shows his abode as 57 New Road, Galway City. Which is basically the corner of New Road and Presentation Street - which is Nuns Island.

In a recent finding and we can only ascertain, that William must of came across the Persse's of the Distillery at some point in his life. Not only that, he may have met Francis Fitzgerald (Brewer), that was almost based directly beside the Distillery. Francis's Son (Nicholas Fitzgerald), will have a surprising link in later years, to George in Melbourne.

There were also depictions of hand drawn images that were based upon Boxing, Billiards and Rowing around the shores of Dublin (c. 1865). Most of these types of travels and or images, seemed to have stayed south of Dublin (nothing known of anything North of Dublin).

What is initially known about these boys movements, is that it is more probable that George came to Australia first, prior to September 1869, as that date shows he becomes a partner within a Photographic studio called "Johnstone O'Shannessy & Co". It was based at 3 Bourke Street East (Next GPO).
I can only suggest that he must of been here at least a few months, if not a year in order to get a position in this business, unless he had prior connections.

We know with assurety, that Frederick left Ireland very late in 1868, as he disembarked Liverpool in Feb 1869. He landed on the shores of Melbourne/Victoria in April 1869 aboard "SS Great Britain".
On a newspaper clipping, it mentioned that "Henry Hood Newenham" had a piece of luggage waiting for him (that came over from the UK). I can only speculate, that there may have been some sort of prior discussion within the Hasler/Newenham family. As Frederick, was to "court" Eliza (Henry's daughter) after this time.

9th Apr 1869 - The Argus

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28. The Hasler's - Dublin, Galway and Melbourne

1700's Dublin Castle - Ireland to Photo Extraordinaires in 150 years

If there is someone in your family lines, that document things by images, you can't go past this photography family. But set in an earlier time, these Hasler's had strong Irish - Dublin Castle links.

This may go into a 2 or 3 page post, as the details of them and the connections they had, were large.
I mean, it just doesn't stop at the Hasler family, as many people that graced their presence, were influential people, particularly the Irish, whether it be in Ireland or Australia.
Their connectivity was immense. It even stems to the Newenham's, both in Ireland and Melbourne.

On my Maternal line, is the Hasler family. There sits a family, very well connected to Dublin Castle and was well within the ranks of the "Administration of Ireland", during the 1700's.
The Hasler's were based in the court of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland during the Townshend / Rutland days and they were Chamberlains to the Lord Lieutenant. They would have been an organiser of sorts, to functions as such and performed daily duties to the functionality of the Lord Lieutenant.

Sir John Hasler (6th GGF) was a Chamberlain to, what looks like the controversial Townshend administration. Also was with the Duke of Rutland. What looks like to be his son John Hasler (5th GGF), was a Deputy Chamberlain, but of what I can see, he was only deputy, under the Duke of Rutland.
Son - John was also a Captain in the 28th Regiment of Foot.

Captain John had a few children, one of them was William Benjamin Hasler (4th GGF) and he married Hannah Scott.
During the 1830's, William and Hannah may have lived in Dalkey, Dublin (where the Hasler's predominantly lived) but were placed in Galway by the late 1830's. I don't know what took them there, but they were there until William died in 1859. Seems that Hannah moved back to Dalkey to be close to family. William was a farmer as such, but I still don't know how diversified he was. As a family heirloom (Mid 1800's Glass Cutter), depicts a different view.
There is an association to Whitehall House Co. Wexford with this line of Haslers, but I still don't understand this connection.

William and Hannah, had 3 children :

1. Olivia Mary Hasler  -    born circa 1836 Dalkey or Galway - died 1876 Galway
2. Frederick John Hasler - born circa 1838 Dalkey or Galway - died 1920 Melbourne Australia
3. George Henry Massey Hasler - born 1841 Galway City (St.Nicholas) - died 1897 Melbourne Australia

It is unknown, on what happened to Olivia.
But Frederick and George left their Galway home life as emerging photographers - just prior to 1869, for an Australian trip.
Not much is known on George at the early part other than he came to Melbourne first, as he is depicted in mid 1869 as being a partner in a photographic company. (Suggesting he had prior time in Australia, before Frederick).
Frederick came out to Australia in April 1869, but does not list George (in his diary) as being with him.
Both these men, were accomplished photographers, some would say - masters of their crafts. In time George will take the limelight of being a Photographer to a new level.

I will depict their Australian life, in the next blog.

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27. Y-DNA - It's getting closer to game time - Part 2

Deepest Y-DNA research to date - Part 2 - Names in my DNA (South Irish)


As mentioned in my previous post, my surname is supposed to be atleast a descendant from Mainland Europe. It's not.

So, to break it down, why it's not, I'm going to list the names of the families that show a very close association to my surname.
These names link to ancient times, but going by historical notes, it is expected to be of a later period, after 1169 AD.
However, the Y-DNA may link back further, due to the local Irish Male DNA that is supposed to be there (it is why I connect to the "early Irish" - something that is very close to the Ui' Fidgenti or related groups)

The Y-DNA also supports the theory, that there is Scottish/Norse DNA in our veins.
Being a 1st "cousin" offshoot of sorts to the Ui' Fidgenti  dynasty (Collins/O'Donovan's), there is information to suggest the O'Donovan's had something to do with Ivar of Limerick and more or less were naming their children in honour of Ivar. However, this is suggestive, not proven from my account.
What we do know is, that Limerick City, was a "den" of Norse activity around the 900-1100 AD period. So we have known people in the same area at the same time period, but connecting them to historical notes and using the DNA to confirm or deny the notes, is the hard part.

The connecting names are listed using the 67 Marker of my Y-DNA - listed as per "Genetic Distance". I've used the 67 Marker as a base of knowledge. Due to the amount of names and the DNA tree they descend off (CTS4466), we can work our theories from there.
Most or if not all of them, form part of the CTS4466 - South Irish DNA. Spread out all over the tree, these names seem to connect to myself and or my Father. But how or even why, is the question.

(top is more related - bottom is lesser related)

• 4 GD  - Fitzgibbon
• 5 GD  - Caldwell (or variants), Davies
• 6 GD  - Huey (or variants), Fitzgibbon, O'Leary, Brothers, Lee, Nichols, Mahoney, O'Hearn, Daley (or variants), MacDonald
• 7GD   - O'Sullivan, Taylor, Collins, Kane, Jones, Roberts, Colwell, Barnett, Morris, Lynch, Ferguson, Gleason (or variants), Hayes, O'Brien, McCullogh, Donohue (or variants), McCarty (or variants), Lawrence, Loomis, Mahoney

The most interesting and most dominant story to my quest, are the O'Sullivan (who were also connected to the McCarthy's) and the Collins/O'Donovan names.

• O'Sullivan's/McCarthy's were of Cork and or Tipperary in ancient times, until the factional war broke out with the Normans and they were pushed back into Far West Cork area. In a form and in later times, the Fitzgerald's were also overrun by these 2 families. What was left of the Fitzgerald families, became intergrated with the O'Sullivan/MacCarthy's domination.

• The Collins / O'Donovan's (Common Core to the Ui' Fidgenti) were based in around Limerick (lets use Croom Castle as an example) and they were pushed back into Far West Cork (Skibbereen district) as well, during the Norman escapades. Croom Castle was later a family seat of the Fitzgerald's (Earls of Kildare)

What we do know, the Barons of Offaly / Kildare Fitzgerald line, challenged and pushed out, the Collins/O'Donovan's from Croom Castle and the Earls of Desmond played war with the O'Sullivan's / MacCarthy's.


The surprising one thing that I don't see there, is the O'Shea/Shea names. This family had their ancient lands - North and South of Limerick City, sometime around the time of the invasion of the Norse/Normans.
We do connect up to some Autosomal DNA matches of the Shea's, but it still not conclusive how.
1 match Shea match to my Father, has them based near Pallaskenry, Co Limerick. This is well within our ideals of where we were based with other families during ancient times, but they are much more distant in the Y-DNA than just a cousin (autosomal) match - a handful of Shea's sit in the Y-DNA, but are not close enough to fit within our South Irish DNA.
I am trying to see if the Shea family mingled with an ancient O'Hearn family, due to their lands almost intersecting around Six Mile Bridge, Co. Clare - the supposive family seat of the O'Hearn family. The O'Hearn connection to me, should be of Brian Boru DNA- L226, but does not share L226, instead it is classified as CTS4466. How odd.

So the results of our Fitzgerald Y-DNA, connects with these families but how come, I don't have a Fitzgerald Y-DNA surname there? It has been suggested that a Female Fitzgerald is the key.

This is my quest, to find the dominant Male lineage that there is. And to see if the postulated theory holds to the "Female Fitzgerald" and if ever possible, technology could show the dominant male line we have.
Unfortunately, history hasn't been kind to Females born to the Fitzgerald's and almost some lines that have a Female were not acknowledged by historical accounts.
This is the dilemma.

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26. Y-DNA - It's getting closer to game time

Deepest Y-DNA research to date

Well, the deepest test came in on my Father's Y-DNA just a few days ago.
It tested about 50 odd SNP's in the CTS-4466 "South Irish DNA" Haplogroup and proved beyond reasonable doubt, the final destination.

We are now landed at A-155 (R-A155).
This A-155 also contains a Fitzgibbon lineage and also has something to do with an O'Hearn name
(not tested to A-155). I am using an educated guess, that this maybe more of a plausible Limerick connection. But all I know of a Cork City connection via paperwork.
A few Autosomal matches with both myself and my Father, share Fitzgerald connectivity but some also share a Limerick connectivity as well (City and County). 

With prior knowledge many months ago and with an educated guess, I tested positive to A-89 and that is just one step up from A-155. So I was pretty close to nailing the Terminal SNP.
With the tests, my Father was also tested to 1 step down from A-155, to A-156. He tested negative for that, so A-155 is a hard stop and we don't go any further (A-156 is a related to a MacDonald lineage).

So, A-155 is as far as I can test, with DNA technology. It hasn't given me a lineage (a Faction of Fitzgerald) yet, nor has it given me a direct dynasty I am off. As the closest 111 marker is still at 8GD (Genetic Distance)
However, it has been mentioned to me, that the Ui Fidgenti (Based in Limerick) dynastical grouping, is very close - but not direct.
As we don't share any Fitzgerald surnamed Autosomal or Y-DNA matches, it is quite plausible at the moment to say, that we descend off a Female Fitzgerald who had a fling with an Irish Native (whomever that was). Or that many of my line aren't alive today to test.
Our lineage is the only Fitzgerald's in the CTS4466 project and the only one to test this far down.

Fitzgerald / Fitzgibbon surnames, are synonymous to ancient Ireland, which dates back into the Norman Invasion era (after 1169 AD) However, both these lineages should not connect back to Ireland or have the South Irish DNA, simply because we are supposed to be Norman and from the Mainland of Europe. Some say an Italian / Tunisia descent. Some say Spain, some say French/Wales.

So at the moment, to have native Male Irish DNA, we are now projecting the research to a Female Fitzgerald, who kept her name and the Male assumed the Fitzgerald name.
Well, that's the theory anyway.

Lets see how far we get.

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25. Images Tell Stories - Part 3

The Two Faces of Old Cultural Ireland

These 2 images, depict part of my Maternal Family and have taught me so much on a Country, that I knew little about 10 years ago.

They depict 2 types of Irish of the "Old Culture" and they ignite my thoughts on why a country was so hard done by. The years within it's own Politics, it's Famine, it's struggle with an identity crisis - To be part of the "Act of Union" or not and it's dealings with "Aunty" England.

These 2 men were one of many "co-pilots" to a nation as such, in a very tumultuous period.
2 very different views on how to steer a nation to success, well I suppose, their views of success.
Sir Edward battling with Henry Grattan and Thomas being one of many "Right Hand Men" to The Liberator - Daniel O'Connell, were some of the connections these men had.

Though something sits on my mind, that I must mention, is the "White Elephant in the room" and the biggest driver of their lives, were their religious views. This played out, quite a part in their Political lives. The greatest thing I learned out of these 2 men, is that in today's world, Religious views should be left out of Politics or at the "front door of Parliament".
Why? Because it clouds the mind of deciding what's best for the Country's best interests.

The "Act of Union" was a great learning tool for this. I'd suggest you read about the Act of Union and what swayed the voting and judge for yourself, as it was quite the eye opener. Part of this, plays out many years later when O'Connell tries to "Repeal" the Act.

Over the centuries, Religion surpassed the power of the Law until recent times.
In 1810, an intriguing instance of Religion vs Law event occurred.
It involves Thomas MacNevin's Father - Daniel MacNevin.
Daniel was an acting Sub-Sheriff and was embroiled in an event, which he had to physically punish 2 men. I'll let you discover the story : HERE

And the most surprising playout, with a very staunch Protestant Sir Edward, was that he allowed a Catholic Man to join the ranks of his Volunteer Militia. Because it was for the "cause of Ireland's best interest's". This particular act stunned my thoughts, because it wasn't like him to allow Catholic's into his domain.
It is probably the only act of "kindness" towards Catholic's, that I can find - from my point of view.

Now, the Protestantism and Irish National Catholicism clash in my DNA, I swear it battles my Fitzgerald DNA. It's probably why I try to rhetorically argue with myself on my thoughts.

I give you :
Protestant                                                                         Catholic & Young Irelander (Nationalist)
Sir Edward Newenham MP (6th GGF)           and           Thomas MacNevin Esq (4th GGUncle)

 

Portrait is from the National Gallery of Ireland
CLICK HERE TO GO THERE

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