Irish Ancestral Heritage

Past stories of my Éire families

Saturday, 27 December 2014

Part 1 - Y-DNA and the Irish Fitzgerald connection.

About 10-11 Months have passed, quite a lot of data has been collated, but still not fully understood (would have to be a professor to understand it?). But it has shone a light, that I am on to something, quite extraordinary, particularly heading to my Paternal heritage.

In essence, I initially used the DNA to trace connections to my Maternal heritage, but after a while it seemed to become stonewalled, because I could not connect with surety, of other Family DNA matches other than the Irish "Galway" Persse family.
I had no other people who I could communicate with, on known paperwork and how their lines integrated.
There were some Maternal lines names that showed what I thought was a connection, but I couldn't show how.
As I was stonewalled a bit, I took a step back and reevaluated how else I could bridge this wall.
The only way I knew how, even though it was starting from scratch again, was to see if I could connect my Paternal line to my Maternal line, using methods that I learned from checking one family. It sounds simple, but trust me, it isn't.
And the concept now, is to use the Y-DNA to see if I can use a point of reference to come back to my Maternal lines. As a side note, the connection could also lie within my Father's Maternal line, as that was Irish/English (Autosomal).
I wanted to see how much of this "dynastical" Fitzgerald family, I have in me.

The most interesting thing that shows quite a bit of a trend and that it's kinda weird, is that my Maternal and Paternal lines have very strong Irish connectivity, I am seeing a flip flop of connections.
That is, what names connect up on my Father's side, finds a connection to my Mother's DNA.
And what names my Mother's side has, shows up connecting with my Father's DNA.
I suppose in a way, the surname "Fitzgerald", was aptly known for being "More Irish than the Irish". Ha!

For instance, a person named 'Butler' in my Autosomal DNA, seems to have connection with my Father's name (in medieval times - The Fitzgerald's vs The Butler's) and shows some DNA segments in close comparison to the Paternal line, but yet the Autosomal DNA is through my Mother.
My Mother and Myself match the same 'Butler', but yet the DNA segments mimic that Paternal pattern. The 'Butler', is not an Autosomal match to my Father.

And in the vice-versa situation, based on some of my Autosomal, Y-DNA and mtDNA, 3 O'Driscoll's that match Myself and my Father on the Autosomal DNA around 3rd cousins, show up in my mtDNA (Maternal only DNA) at the 3rd Genetic Distance. What!!??
How can 3 Autosomal Paternal line matches also match to your Direct Maternal lineage?
I am suspecting a connection by the MacCarthy clan here, most possibly of the West Cork/Kerry regions, as on both sides of my parents, they share minor Autosomal matches to different MacCarthy's.
On my Father's Maternal line (Humphries Line), he has a known "Lismore" - MacCarthy link there. This should not affect the Y-DNA, but rather to show up as an Autosomal match? (if that logic holds??)

I haven't found a direct paternal line MacCarthy yet. But I do know there is known Fitzgerald/MacCarthy (Earls of Kildare Lineage) historical ties to one another. I haven't found if we fit into this category yet.

There is also, quite a remarkable connection to the far West Cork area.
Around the Skibbereen district. It involves the O'Shea's and the Collins families.
The Collins name, is on my Father's Direct Maternal line and is supposed to be of English origin, however the DNA is showing more of a "Native" Irish connection, rather than a Normandy/French one. Wow!
The O'Shea's are also part of the South Irish group.

Anyway, what is remarkable so far, is the Y-DNA is showing quite the guiding light.
It isn't the bright white-guiding light, with an angelic figure to guide me the way in a dark tunnel type of thing, but rather a dim frosted - hazy glass light in a dark tunnel laced with a misty fog. Still feeling my way round the tunnel, but I can see where I need to go.
It has revealed that I am of the "South Irish" DNA group. It is also known as "Irish Type II" or CTS4466 Y-DNA Haplogroup.
It is predominantly based around the area known as 'Munster'.

Somehow my ancestors mingled with families in this area. Along the lines of the MacCarthy / O'Sullivan (or connotations to the Eóghanacht native dynasties) and their absorbed clans, it also seems by historical knowledge that my ancestors were most possibly, of the Desmond Geraldine's and they too, somehow became absorbed with this Munster MacCarthy / O'Sullivan connection.

What came of light within the last couple of weeks, is that my lineage mingled closely, with an O'Hearn/Ahearn/Ahern (+ many other variants) family.
In this CTS4466 group, I am of the SNP of A195+, which seems to connect with the O'Hearn's, but it is, only at the 9th Genetic Distance. As yet, Myself or my Father, have no Autosomal DNA match to the O'Hearn (+ Variant) name. But many people around this CTS4466 group, do share Autosomal matches with Myself & my Father, so it compounds the Y-DNA story, that indeed my Y-DNA is of the South Irish. But is the above Y-DNA set to a time period? I am not sure, but it seems to be centered around the 1300's (educated guess). The CTS4466 DNA group, goes on to a much earlier time period - well before 1000 AD.

As I am supposed to be descendant of the Norman Invasion
, I suppose I can only be classified as CTS4466 "Native Irish" from before 1169 AD - logical deduction. The Norman domination worked it's way into Munster around 1177 AD.
And my interpretation of this CTS4466, shows it's predominately centered around the 6th/7th Genetic Distance on my Y-67 Marker.

*As a side note in history, the 2 half brothers - FitzGerald/Fitz Stephen, initially raided Ireland in 1169 AD, the Strongbow/Fitzgerald invasion, wasn't until 1171 AD. And the push to Western Cork with the MacCarthy's was around 1177 AD.

What is really interesting on the Y-67, is at the 5th Genetic Distance, it shows a much different scenario.
That is, it shows a weird Scottish, maybe Welsh connection. Davis/Davies and a Caldwell/Colwell seems to dominate this era.
Almost like a line in the sand, we have an ancient connection to the Munster people, but a closer tie to some Scottish/Welsh connections. Based at Northern Ireland (Co. Donegal is mentioned quiet a bit).

Back to the stronger Y-DNA connection, there is some information regarding this O'Hearn family, together with the Desmond Fitzgerald's and Lord Roche based on Military ties in the medieval times.
Some other information ties these 2 families up, but it's still not confirmed which Desmond Fitzgerald this was. Maybe somewhere around the 4-6th Earl?
Some of my information is based upon Dr Paul MacCotter's research.

But due to the fluctuating marriages of the Fitzgerald's in the medieval times - i.e intermarrying between the factions, we could possibly have this issue in my DNA.
And could well be steering me into a promising lead, albeit not the most dominant connection. So in essence, I could be off a Desmond Fitzgerald line, but could have been tainted with a Kildare-ian, White Knight or Knights of Kerry line that could be steering me on a smaller connection, rather than to find the true Paternal lineage.
My Direct Maternal (Irish) lineage is laced with 'intermarrying' cousins - (Persse/Newenham), so I suppose it's only fair for the Paternal to get involved as well. Who would have thought.
This is a Paternal hypothesis, but my Maternal knowledge has taught me to be wary of this problem.

Now, some other weird unconfirmed documentation, supports a hypothesis, that in more recent times, this Fitzgerald / Ahern family mingled.
As I have found a land lease regarding, on what is regarded to possibly be a Fitzgerald connection.
It shows a Thomas Fitzgerald leasing land of the Smith/Ahern family in 1826, on the South Eastern side of Cork City.
It does not show if this is a connection to my line, other than that I can place my 4th GGF in Cork City at the time (he would have been around 16 at the time of this lease date - can a 16 year old own/rent/lease land?)

My Fitzgerald lineage goes back to Cork City, with association to being in the Carpentry (or a Wheelwright?) trade. I know there is listings for 2 or 3 Fitzgerald's around Evergreen Road around the 1830's and that they had been Carpenter's, but I still have not proven if there is connection to these Fitzgerald's.

There is a Irish Birth Record, showing my 4th GGF was born under the Catholic Church (Dunbar Street - South Parish), but swapped religions for the C of I when he got married in the 1837 era (this is suspected, as the note of marriage in the Casey Collection, does not define the Church, but mentions that "Marriages not mainly of Catholic" - That's a great analogy isn't it).
Thomas and Eliza (Elizabeth) Fitzgerald traveled to Australia around the 1841 era. They were noted as under the Protestant Church of St. James in Sydney, Australia by 1841/1842 era. And that his descendants stayed that way until my Great Grandfather swapped us back to the Catholic side. Funnily enough, he married a Sheehan (believe she may have been the driving force of the Catholic swap over?). The Sheehan name is showing signs of a West Cork connection.

The search continues.

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by Brett Fitzgerald Saturday, December 27, 2014 No comments

Saturday, 25 October 2014

DNA Testing, Results and Thoughts (Initial blog)

Well, 9 months have passed, since I took the Family Tree DNA test.
9 confusing months, with almost daily intrusions into my deep inner self.
9 months of trying to unravel, this fascination with my inner coded building blocks of my Human Genome.

There are 3 parts to Ancestral DNA test (the basic parts that you need to know).
  1.  Autosomal testing : Links you with Cousins from both sides of your parents
  2.  Y-DNA : Strictly your Paternal line (Testing for Males only)
  3.  mtDNA : Strictly your Maternal line (Testing for both Male and Female)

This is predominately your close family and relatives that you know of.
Autosomal can also find 1/2 siblings as well. Beware of this.
The major flaw with Autosomal testing, is that it is looking from both sides of your family and it doesn't tell you which side it is from. Yes it's nice to identify a close cousin, but unless their surname is known (and they have placed "research names" in their data), you've got a small chance of nutting it out.
I have about 5 people who I have confirmed are cousins, however it's quite scattered.

There is an X Chromosome component there as well, but you have to becareful with this. Study this over a few hours, it's not learnt in a few minutes.
It is a Maternal line check, but it can start to go awry if you don't understand how the X chromosome works.
In basic, it starts with your Mother only. (That's an easy one..haha)
But this is where it can get tricky. It can be from your Mother's Mother (Maternal Grandmother) or your Mother's Father's Mother (Maternal Great GrandMother).
As your Mother inherits 2 "X" chromosomes from her parents, the X can be transmitted from either the Mother's Mother or the Father's Mother (It always follows a Man's Maternal side). Again learn how the X and Y are transmitted down to you.

Y-DNA and mtDNA is very difficult to work with. I have found the mtDNA the hardest to work with, as the names that changed due to marriages and it's just crazy trying to work with name changes.
The Y-DNA hasn't alluded to anything major under the 37 marker. But has been very helpful above the 67 Marker.
However don't disregard the names at the 37 marker and below, as these show a pattern of very distant families.

The biggest thing that you must ask yourself, when wanting to do this type of test is : "Am I ready"? - Ready for what???

By that I mean, with the DNA test, with enough learning behind you, things "will" come up unexpectedly.
By that, I mean, you could find unexpected relationships (certain relatives are not biological).
It has happened, does happen and still happens today.
You have to take this test in a sense of whatever you find out, have an open mind, whether it's good or bad.

Ok, so what have I found ??? 
Story so far leads me to Ireland (surprise!!!!!), pretty well way back into time. I knew it would be Ireland, but I didn't expect this.

My autosomal matches are around 600. 5th cousin and closer. Ironically, not 1 person matches my surname, nor any matches on the Y-DNA.
Yes, my Father and Mother match me - again, there was no reason to doubt this.
And not what I was doing the test for.

I did the Autosomal test first, thrown in the deep end, didn't know what to do.
Simply guessed my way around, I suppose.
It took 3-5 months to get the hang of it and looking for comparative links.
Started around 450 DNA match's and no-one matched my surname... Great.
Started looking around and it was quite clear that I had to do more research on my surnames list.

Wasn't having much success there, so then I updated the kit to a Full Genomic Sequence (FGS) mtDNA.
That was almost a bummer as it still didn't allude to names and families I knew on the maternal side.

I then turned to Y-DNA, as I still had some reservations on how the DNA was correlating to what I knew of the paper trail.

So after 9 months, this is what I know :
  • mtDNA hasn't alluded to much except for a mysterious link with 3 matches. These 3 matches are Autosomal matches to myself and my Father, but not my Mother, yet they appear in my Maternal DNA. The match is at an expected 3rd cousin Autosomal range and a 3rd Genetic Distance on the mtDNA. It seems we match Autosomally through my Father, but there is a link to the Maternal line as well (I think there is a link between my Father's line and Mothers line, but not 100% established - might be a MacCarthy / Fitzgerald thing??)
  • Y-DNA has only started to be understood in the last 2 or 3 weeks (after 4 months at it).
    My haplogroup started to at R-M269, then after careful scrutineering, I was expected to have the CTS4466 trait. CTS4466 is known as "South Irish DNA". Mostly based in what is called Munster. I tested positive to the CTS4466 Haplogroup.
    Which means, that my Direct Male line has shown scientific evidence, that connects to this Munster "South Irish".

    After many weeks I still didn't see how to interpret the result, but what I found was that most people who matched me at above the 67 marker level, were in this haplogroup as well.
    Now to break it down even further a map was drawn up, explaining where the families of this Haplogroup interrelated with each other.
    In a maze of segments of detailed DNA- known as "SNP's", in order to determine who you came from, you have to find your detailed last Haplogroup, then you need to test down a line of SNP's, thus it's a process of eliminating them.
    In order to prove, you first must eliminate.

    Now what was striking about the Y-DNA, I still had no one match my surname at the 67 marker and or the 111 marker.
    What I did see, was a semi closeness to the Davies and Caldwell families at the 67 level and an O'Hearn at the 111 marker (still distant though at this level)
    This puzzled me and still does, due to the fact the the info suggests that you should see your family surname atleast appearing at the 67 marker.
    If you don't, it suggests a name change (most probably a Marriage), or you line was from an adopted person.
    Being an Irish surname -  Fitzgerald (yes with a lower G), initially got my mind running, that we may have been adopted in but I heard a story that most possibly we descend from a woman Fitzgerald.
    So, initially I thought that it was adoption, but then it turned "Oh it was just the marriage" thing.
    Well, I still haven't got a clear male surname (that's closer than 5th Genetic Distance).
    This is where I had to turn to study the Paternal Haplogroup tree a little more.
    Low and behold, I finally seen what the DNA was telling me.
    CTS4466, was known as the South Irish or Irish Type II. In this tree, segmented many times and certain families ran down each of these lines.
    If you knew about mathematics, you could effectively eliminate these lines at low cost, due to hitting the right SNP (so if turned Neg, it would wipe out the most familes in one hit, thus saving you time and money)
    I have taken out 4 SNP tests, 1 to confirm the CTS4466 and 3 others to widdle down the family involved. It is a trial and error, but if you do it right you can save money with educated guesses. Though it is only $39USD per SNP.
    In the Y-DNA, it has shown families like : Davies, McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Fitzgibbon, and Caldwell, with a 111 marker to an O'Hearn.
    After many hours so far, I haven't figured out which Fitzgerald faction yet (there is about 5 factions) but in about 6 weeks, it should be down to a handful of families.
    The problem with the Fitzgerald's, is that so many had interrelated marriages, by the way of 1st cousinship.
    So what my DNA is telling me, I relate to a few factions, however which one is the more dominant?? The $64 million question. More to come.
  • AutosomaI : have been told there is a Limerick connection there somewheres with my Fathers side. I know my Maternal side has strong Cork/Dublin and Galway influences.
    Like the Y-DNA, the same result for the Autosomal, no Fitzgerald's.
    However, there are links to families who mingled with them.
    Have confimed a handful of connections, but it's very difficult to figure it out, due to a factor that my Mother and Father's DNA are close to each other (unfounded which lines yet). My Father has Irish Paternal, with mixtures of English and Irish Maternal. My Mother has Irish Maternal line and English Paternal line. And I do really believe there is a cross over of DNA, but as of yet, it's distant (maybe around 7th cousin?)
    I have a hunch which faction we might be from, but I'll wait for a bit more confirmation.
    What is apparent, there is some weird connection with South West Cork, as I only know of Cork City, there seems to be a story there.
    Mum's side looks like it's starting to evolve as well. Some links are showing promise, but it's still distant and needs a lot of research time, along with a helpful "cousin" who wants to also - share info.  Interesting times.

What has been shown in contrast to my testing, is that because I am so many Generations down without "so called" Irish intervention as such, in the Genealogy world, my DNA vs my Father's or Mother's DNA is at the cutoff point of the Autosomal DNA test.
Many matches that match my Father and Mother, don't match me, why?
Because I fall in the bracket of the "Cutoff" point of 7cM (measurement of DNA).

If my Father or Mother matches someone at say 7.6cM or 8cM, the chances of me having the same level of inherited segment of DNA, is quite slim.
I have proven this, as I know a 5th Cousin, he has taken a DNA kit and he matches my Mother, but not me. I just fall under the cutoff at I think a 6.7cM level.
My Mother is a 5th Cousin -1 x removed, I am 2 x removed.
Something to think about when comparing cousins at the 5th cousin or 7cM level. 
Anyway, I'll leave it there for the moment, until more results come in.

**** Note : Many thanks to all the people that have helped out so far (Meryl, Ellen & Paddy and many others who have responded to my detailed emails). 

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by Brett Fitzgerald Saturday, October 25, 2014 No comments

Sunday, 27 July 2014

  Deeper Ancestry

I ventured along a path that lead me to my burning thought.
I know so much on my Maternal, I now have the tools and empowerment to finally tackle the Paternal side.

I knew a little of my Paternal side, but not enough. It has "got my goat", to actually find out and venture a little deeper into finding out what historical ties we can find.

I chose to do a DNA Ancestral test, to see where the Fitzgerald side would take me. Not only that, but my Mother's side was still quite blank in some parts.

he whole basis on why I chose to do the DNA test was for heritage/historical reasons.

I just want to know how I became to being an "Australian", with such Irish ties. I want the story of my Heritage known to me, whether it has drama or not, good with the bad, etc etc.

Unfortunately I stopped posting to my blog, due to the fact that I needed to research the DNA a bit better to understand my blood lines.

Now once I found out how much Fitzgerald Ancestry was in Ireland before the 1840/1850's period, it begged the question : "Did the Fitzgerald's ever meet up my Mother's side - Newenham/Persse's?"
Both sides had Parliamentarian's / governing type people.

A person that had help and assisted with this process, had links to the Persse's.
She suggested to get tested and see how much "Persse Blood" we had sharing between us.
Little did I know at that time, but found out a bit later, that my 4th Great Grandfather's Wedding was witnessed by her 2nd & 3rd Great Grandfather's.

Whoa....Crazy - What??
There's more to this story than meets the eye.
It was by chance that I submitted a photo of a wedding certificate and it showed her side being witnesses...Small world huh!

So anyway, I submitted my DNA Test way back in Feb/March 2014.
It is only now, about 5 months later after many hours of hard research, that I can mention what I found.

Tune in soon for the next update.

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by Brett Fitzgerald Sunday, July 27, 2014 No comments

Edgar Claude Hasler    -   1874 -1946

Continuing from Part 6 (Final):

All the hard work, all the thoughts and processes of his life, his family life, came crashing down on 23 of August 1946.

The day, Edgar Claude Hasler - Kelwylyn R Moure, passed away in an aged care facility in Sydney.
He left a legacy, of a man who stuck to his guns on his dreams through the turmoil, even if he had "made his bed and to lie in it"
Life wasn't easy for him in his teens, he lost his mother to Cancer, when he was about 16 years old and had to struggle through with his Father and younger siblings, some who were under the age of 5.
Uprooting his life in Melbourne, venturing his life to Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne and Sydney (among other visits to other smaller cities).

Out of his will that got spread around the family and friends, my Grandmother received some books and an ancient Glass Cutter passed down by Edgar's Father/Grandfather (believe this Glass Cutter holds a story on it's own, into the family's history into Photography between Galway, Ireland and Australia)

I don't know what it is about Edgar, but his 'double' life has really touched me, because he just wanted to be like his Great Grandfather. It is the only reasoning I can come up with, why he got into the Coal/Gas/Oil industry, whether he was trained up or not, it was his life. Just the gift of the gab and his knowledge of the industry was his advantage.

Edgar left one parting gift, his Death Certificate. I'm going to share it, because it shows what I am talking about.
His life was so "in debt", to his Ancestors (Sir Edward Newenham and his eldest son Edward Worth Newenham) - both 2nd Great Grandfather and Great Grandfather's respectively, that he made sure their lives lived on through him.

The Death Certificate shows where he told people where he was born, even though it is proven that he was born in Melbourne.
The place was in reference to where George Washington lived - Mount Vernon, Virginia.
Edgar's Great Grandmother and wife of Edward Worth, was Elizabeth Persse.
Elizabeth's father was Col. William Persse of Roxborough, who also had a property called Mount Vernon in Ireland. It was made in honour of George Washington.
So you can see, Edgar was completely surrounded by history. His Death information was his final parting gift of what he was and what he belonged to.

My Grandmother (young girl on the right) with Edgar and family

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by Brett Fitzgerald Sunday, July 27, 2014 No comments

Saturday, 22 February 2014

Edgar Claude Hasler    -   1874 -1946

Continuing from Part 5:

Just when you think you have got some part of continuity with your research, along comes another document, that blew my mind.

It allowed me to believe that the family of the Newenham / Hasler's, still had a genuine interest in Ireland, way up till the late 1930's.
Before this find, I didn't know what to believe, as I had no family documentation to suggest they still had any interest in Ireland.
I was under the impression that all lands and inheritances  were disposed of, after Henry Hood died and the family lived on from that money. But not so.

One of Ireland's record services, had shown a document, listing Edgar's Uncle (Edward Persse Newenham - Henry Hood's second son), still had some portion of the lands in Knockbrack.
This was dated around the early 1920's (1922 I think). That's the only thing I knew after 1900, that the family had any connection to Ireland.

A few days ago, it was discovered that many years after Edward Persse Newenham died, that Edgar and his Aunty Caroline Anne Pitman (nee Newenham), controlled some of the Shallee Mine Lands up until 1937.
I was completely taken back, as it's the first confirmation, they still had a genuine interest in Ireland.

Edgar's "Will / Estate" never mentioned anything about lands of this nature. I believe he may have been acting as in an "assistant's" capacity, rather to be owning land. However, Edgar was involved directly with this business, but it remains unclear to what capacity.
I am more certain than before, that his business and family connection to Mining, was the driving force to his years of banter on the Mining Industry, Politicians and Council's, here in Melbourne and that of other parts of Australia.

But I am still in bewilderment, as to his family connection, that it didn't make him a very successful entrepreneur. I can only add, he knew of the business of the Mining very well, but wasn't taught the science of it. He had no degree's, but professed to have the knowledge.
The Australian Federal Government notes on Edgar (over various years), shows a slightly confused person, which indicates "why" Edgar, was never really successful.
IMHO, if Edgar had of gone to a University as such, got a degree and became a Dr (of science), you might have well said that he would have been the best Geologist / Miner you've ever seen.
But somewhere, lurking in the background, there's this little voice that keeps nagging me, to believe that his Brother-In-law, Phillip MacNevin, had something to do with the 1900's name change and persona change of : Edgar Claude Hasler becoming Kelwylyn Rawson Moure.
A circumstantial era with connotations of the exact same incident to that of Edgar's sister "Annie Henriette Hasler". Both Brother and Sister's name were changed in 1900-1903. The era that Phillip MacNevin came about.

Now, Caroline died within a year from this 1937 news paper publication.
Some Australian news paper clippings mention about Caroline's children having quite an estate. The son died early on and that it passed to a sibling and a friend. So this land may have been passed outside the family after the 1940's. But still not greatly researched. Though, the story is there.

Shallee Mines - K.R Moure and Caroline Anne Pitman Lease - 6th Nov 1937 - Nenagh Guardian


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by Brett Fitzgerald Saturday, February 22, 2014 No comments

Saturday, 11 January 2014

Edgar Claude Hasler    -   1874 -1946

Continuing from Part 4:

Patent No.1 - Well Boring Device

Patent No.2 - Steam Generator

Patent No.3 - Coal Shale Retort

Patent No.4 - Shale or Coal Retort

Patent No.5 - Improvements in Steam Generator
Patent No.6 - Improvements for Distillation of Shale

Moure also became known for an inventive mind. After WW1, Moure's mining expedition in Western Australia came to a close. He moved back to Melbourne and then off to Sydney (Naremburn).
With no prior history of his schooling and or his higher education skills ever known, it is not fully understood 'where' he got his skills of the Mining Industry, but one thing is clear, they were all mostly derived from Oil/Coal/Gas/Power Generation industries / concepts.
One would have to think, if you were producing patents for these industries, you should have a clear understanding on principles of chemistry and metallurgy.
No paperwork, has ever shown up as proof, as to Moure's Chemistry / Metallurgy skills.

I have only but a grasp of how I think Moure knew his stuff. The only way that is clear, is again, by his Grandfather's stories and "hand down of information" of his Great Grandfather - Edward Worth Newenham 1767-1832.
The Mining of the lands in Tipperary, Ireland by Edward and Moure's life history, is too hard to ignore. It is the only shining light in all these years of research, to provide more than just "reasonable doubt" to his knowledge.

Moure never had shown any proof of accolades at all. Simply business cards with his titles. Some mention of Trade Certificates, but that would not warrant the certain information or jobs that what he was trying to get.
A lot of his writings to people, had instilled some sort of "too much information" and it confused the participant, in that they just agreed with what he said. It all sounded good.....That is until certain people with 'professor' accolades, sussed him out.
He had the "gift of the gab" and writing skills to procure a benefit in his favour, most of his lines would be something in the order of "be a good chap and help me out, without the fuss".

Moure's persona, had to be about 10-15 years older than he really was. It was created that way, to show that he was "in the early days" of exploration, as Australia was only finding it's feet in the very early 1900's. It was the only way he knew on how to pull it off.

These Patents also show a trend throughout his life, in that he changed his middle "R" name a few times. We see 2 names, "Rawson" and "Roswan" but he did have a 3rd name as well, but it's not mentioned here in these patents.
They were changed on purpose and there is no doubt about it. As certain events that happened around the time of change, he had issues with his devices and people were trying to find him, to get their money back.
Because he changed his middle initial, he went under the name of K.R Moure, which technically, could be all of these changes.
Pretty smart fella, that he could, so to speak, be 3 people all at once.

Of what I can figure out about Mr Moure, these patents were IMHO, previous peoples patents and idea's and all he did was play with them and call it an "improvement". Under the patent laws, to be your own patent you can - edit, a previous patent, improve it to clean it's flaws and it can be then claimed as your own.
 The key problem with patents (that I understood after all of this research), is that they were still untested devices, which I didn't know about at the time. They "claimed" to work, but an inventor had to protect their work, so they patented it, before it was tested. The patent was then put to the public, to entice the investment of said device. With the influx of money, R&D could be further placed on the development of the patent.
With these patents, if your device didn't work as claimed (when built and physically tested), you didn't get the funding or the investors.

Now, sometime later, someone else can pick up this flawed patent, simply tweak it, then flog it off as an "improved" device. But yet, it can be still flawed and not work after the tweak.
Depending on the "Inventor" and the gift of the gab, you can sell it off and make money.

This is simply my theory on Moure. He had knowledge of the industry, but lacked chemistry and metallurgy skills. And his undoing. It is the sole reason why he did not get financial backing from anyone, simply because his theories on the product actually working, didn't match up with the investors beliefs.
These patents were tweaks on previous patents that didn't work. He used the analogy that someone else did the hard yards, I'll use their failed project and tweak it and sell it.
He tried for many years to sell his devices, but yet could not provide evidence that they indeed actually worked. He wanted funding first then produced the product.

Off all these patents, none of them were sold or made any money for Moure.

When Moure (Edgar) died in 1946, his 'WILL' mentioned this tidbit. The answer!

*Note : His will was under the name of Kelwylyn R  Moure, not Edgar Claude Hasler.  Yet in the will he mentions his family that is of the "Hasler's" and "MacNevin's". He died as Kelwylyn R Moure.

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by Brett Fitzgerald Saturday, January 11, 2014 No comments

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