Stories Of My Irish Families

Irish Native/Planter Stories

Tuesday 28 July 2015

1700's Dublin Castle - Ireland to Photo Extraordinaires in 150 years

If there is someone in your family lines, that document things by images, you can't go past this photography family. But set in an earlier time, these Hasler's had strong Irish - Dublin Castle links.

This may go into a 2 or 3 page post, as the details of them and the connections they had, were large.
I mean, it just doesn't stop at the Hasler family, as many people that graced their presence, were influential people, particularly the Irish, whether it be in Ireland or Australia.
Their connectivity was immense. It even stems to the Newenham's, both in Ireland and Melbourne.

On my Maternal line, is the Hasler family. There sits a family, very well connected to Dublin Castle and was well within the ranks of the "Administration of Ireland", during the 1700's.
The Hasler's were based in the court of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland during the Townshend / Rutland days and they were Chamberlains to the Lord Lieutenant. They would have been an organiser of sorts, to functions as such and performed daily duties to the functionality of the Lord Lieutenant.

Sir John Hasler (6th GGF) was a Chamberlain to, what looks like the controversial Townshend administration. Also was with the Duke of Rutland. What looks like to be his son John Hasler (5th GGF), was a Deputy Chamberlain, but of what I can see, he was only deputy, under the Duke of Rutland.
Son - John was also a Captain in the 28th Regiment of Foot.

Captain John had a few children, one of them was William Benjamin Hasler (4th GGF) and he married Hannah Scott.
During the 1830's, William and Hannah may have lived in Dalkey, Dublin (where the Hasler's predominantly lived) but were placed in Galway by the late 1830's. I don't know what took them there, but they were there until William died in 1859. Seems that Hannah moved back to Dalkey to be close to family. William was a farmer as such, but I still don't know how diversified he was. As a family heirloom (Mid 1800's Glass Cutter), depicts a different view.
There is an association to Whitehall House Co. Wexford with this line of Haslers, but I still don't understand this connection.

William and Hannah, had 3 children :
  1. Olivia Mary Hasler  -    born circa 1836 Dalkey or Galway - died 1876 Galway
  2. Frederick John Hasler - born circa 1838 Dalkey or Galway - died 1920 Melbourne Australia
  3. George Henry Massey Hasler - born 1841 Galway City (St.Nicholas) - died 1897 Melbourne Australia

It is unknown, on what happened to Olivia.
But Frederick and George left their Galway home life as emerging photographers - just prior to 1869, for an Australian trip.
Not much is known on George at the early part other than he came to Melbourne first, as he is depicted in mid 1869 as being a partner in a photographic company. (Suggesting he had prior time in Australia, before Frederick).
Frederick came out to Australia in April 1869, but does not list George (in his diary) as being with him.
Both these men, were accomplished photographers, some would say - masters of their crafts. In time George will take the limelight of being a Photographer to a new level.

I will depict their Australian life, in the next blog.

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by Stories Of My Irish Families Tuesday, July 28, 2015 No comments

Sunday 19 July 2015

Deepest Y-DNA research to date - Part 2 - Names in my DNA (South Irish)


As mentioned in my previous post, my surname is supposed to be atleast a descendant from Mainland Europe. It's not.

So, to break it down, why it's not, I'm going to list the names of the families that show a very close association to my surname.
These names link to ancient times, but going by historical notes, it is expected to be of a later period, after 1169 AD.
However, the Y-DNA may link back further, due to the local Irish Male DNA that is supposed to be there (it is why I connect to the "early Irish" - something that is very close to the Ui' Fidgenti or related groups)

The Y-DNA also supports the theory, that there is Scottish/Norse DNA in our veins.
Being a 1st "cousin" offshoot of sorts to the Ui' Fidgenti  dynasty (Collins/O'Donovan's), there is information to suggest the O'Donovan's had something to do with Ivar of Limerick and more or less were naming their children in honour of Ivar. However, this is suggestive, not proven from my account.
What we do know is, that Limerick City, was a "den" of Norse activity around the 900-1100 AD period. So we have known people in the same area at the same time period, but connecting them to historical notes and using the DNA to confirm or deny the notes, is the hard part.

The connecting names are listed using the 67 Marker of my Y-DNA - listed as per "Genetic Distance". I've used the 67 Marker as a base of knowledge. Due to the amount of names and the DNA tree they descend off (CTS4466), we can work our theories from there.
Most or if not all of them, form part of the CTS4466 - South Irish DNA. Spread out all over the tree, these names seem to connect to myself and or my Father. But how or even why, is the question.

(top is more related - bottom is lesser related)
  • 4 GD  - Fitzgibbon
  • 5 GD  - Caldwell (or variants), Davies
  • 6 GD  - Huey (or variants), Fitzgibbon, O'Leary, Brothers, Lee, Nichols, Mahoney, O'Hearn, Daley (or variants), MacDonald
  • 7GD   - O'Sullivan, Taylor, Collins, Kane, Jones, Roberts, Colwell, Barnett, Morris, Lynch, Ferguson, Gleason (or variants), Hayes, O'Brien, McCullogh, Donohue (or variants), McCarty (or variants), Lawrence, Loomis, Mahoney

The most interesting and most dominant story to my quest, are the O'Sullivan (who were also connected to the McCarthy's) and the Collins/O'Donovan names.

  • O'Sullivan's/McCarthy's were of Cork and or Tipperary in ancient times, until the factional war broke out with the Normans and they were pushed back into Far West Cork area. In a form and in later times, the Fitzgerald's were also overrun by these 2 families. What was left of the Fitzgerald families, became intergrated with the O'Sullivan/MacCarthy's domination.

  • The Collins / O'Donovan's (Common Core to the Ui' Fidgenti) were based in around Limerick (lets use Croom Castle as an example) and they were pushed back into Far West Cork (Skibbereen district) as well, during the Norman escapades. Croom Castle was later a family seat of the Fitzgerald's (Earls of Kildare)

What we do know, the Barons of Offaly / Kildare Fitzgerald line, challenged and pushed out, the Collins/O'Donovan's from Croom Castle and the Earls of Desmond played war with the O'Sullivan's / MacCarthy's.


The surprising one thing that I don't see there, is the O'Shea/Shea names. This family had their ancient lands - North and South of Limerick City, sometime around the time of the invasion of the Norse/Normans.
We do connect up to some Autosomal DNA matches of the Shea's, but it still not conclusive how.
1 match Shea match to my Father, has them based near Pallaskenry, Co Limerick. This is well within our ideals of where we were based with other families during ancient times, but they are much more distant in the Y-DNA than just a cousin (autosomal) match - a handful of Shea's sit in the Y-DNA, but are not close enough to fit within our South Irish DNA.
I am trying to see if the Shea family mingled with an ancient O'Hearn family, due to their lands almost intersecting around Six Mile Bridge, Co. Clare - the supposive family seat of the O'Hearn family. The O'Hearn connection to me, should be of Brian Boru DNA- L226, but does not share L226, instead it is classified as CTS4466. How odd.

So the results of our Fitzgerald Y-DNA, connects with these families but how come, I don't have a Fitzgerald Y-DNA surname there? It has been suggested that a Female Fitzgerald is the key.

This is my quest, to find the dominant Male lineage that there is. And to see if the postulated theory holds to the "Female Fitzgerald" and if ever possible, technology could show the dominant male line we have.
Unfortunately, history hasn't been kind to Females born to the Fitzgerald's and almost some lines that have a Female were not acknowledged by historical accounts.
This is the dilemma.

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by Stories Of My Irish Families Sunday, July 19, 2015 No comments

Thursday 16 July 2015

Deepest Y-DNA research to date

Well, the deepest test came in on my Father's Y-DNA just a few days ago.
It tested about 50 odd SNP's in the CTS-4466 "South Irish DNA" Haplogroup and proved beyond reasonable doubt, the final destination.

We are now landed at A-155 (R-A155).
This A-155 also contains a Fitzgibbon lineage and also has something to do with an O'Hearn name
(not tested to A-155). I am using an educated guess, that this maybe more of a plausible Limerick connection. But all I know of a Cork City connection via paperwork.
A few Autosomal matches with both myself and my Father, share Fitzgerald connectivity but some also share a Limerick connectivity as well (City and County). 

With prior knowledge many months ago and with an educated guess, I tested positive to A-89 and that is just one step up from A-155. So I was pretty close to nailing the Terminal SNP.
With the tests, my Father was also tested to 1 step down from A-155, to A-156. He tested negative for that, so A-155 is a hard stop and we don't go any further (A-156 is a related to a MacDonald lineage).

So, A-155 is as far as I can test, with DNA technology. It hasn't given me a lineage (a Faction of Fitzgerald) yet, nor has it given me a direct dynasty I am off. As the closest 111 marker is still at 8GD (Genetic Distance)
However, it has been mentioned to me, that the Ui Fidgenti (Based in Limerick) dynastical grouping, is very close - but not direct.
As we don't share any Fitzgerald surnamed Autosomal or Y-DNA matches, it is quite plausible at the moment to say, that we descend off a Female Fitzgerald who had a fling with an Irish Native (whomever that was). Or that many of my line aren't alive today to test.
Our lineage is the only Fitzgerald's in the CTS4466 project and the only one to test this far down.

Fitzgerald / Fitzgibbon surnames, are synonymous to ancient Ireland, which dates back into the Norman Invasion era (after 1169 AD) However, both these lineages should not connect back to Ireland or have the South Irish DNA, simply because we are supposed to be Norman and from the Mainland of Europe. Some say an Italian / Tunisia descent. Some say Spain, some say French/Wales.

So at the moment, to have native Male Irish DNA, we are now projecting the research to a Female Fitzgerald, who kept her name and the Male assumed the Fitzgerald name.
Well, that's the theory anyway.

Lets see how far we get.



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by Stories Of My Irish Families Thursday, July 16, 2015 1 comment

Thursday 9 July 2015

The Two Faces of Old Cultural Ireland

These 2 images, depict part of my Maternal Family and have taught me so much on a Country, that I knew little about 10 years ago.

They depict 2 types of Irish of the "Old Culture" and they ignite my thoughts on why a country was so hard done by. The years within it's own Politics, it's Famine, it's struggle with an identity crisis - To be part of the "Act of Union" or not and it's dealings with "Aunty" England.

These 2 men were one of many "co-pilots" to a nation as such, in a very tumultuous period.
2 very different views on how to steer a nation to success, well I suppose, their views of success.
Sir Edward battling with Henry Grattan and Thomas being one of many "Right Hand Men" to The Liberator - Daniel O'Connell, were some of the connections these men had.

Though something sits on my mind, that I must mention, is the "White Elephant in the room" and the biggest driver of their lives, were their religious views. This played out, quite a part in their Political lives. The greatest thing I learned out of these 2 men, is that in today's world, Religious views should be left out of Politics or at the "front door of Parliament".
Why? Because it clouds the mind of deciding what's best for the Country's best interests.

The "Act of Union" was a great learning tool for this. I'd suggest you read about the Act of Union and what swayed the voting and judge for yourself, as it was quite the eye opener. Part of this, plays out many years later when O'Connell tries to "Repeal" the Act.

Over the centuries, Religion surpassed the power of the Law until recent times.
In 1810, an intriguing instance of Religion vs Law event occurred.
It involves Thomas MacNevin's Father - Daniel MacNevin.
Daniel was an acting Sub-Sheriff and was embroiled in an event, which he had to physically punish 2 men. I'll let you discover the story : HERE

And the most surprising playout, with a very staunch Protestant Sir Edward, was that he allowed a Catholic Man to join the ranks of his Volunteer Militia. Because it was for the "cause of Ireland's best interest's". This particular act stunned my thoughts, because it wasn't like him to allow Catholic's into his domain.
It is probably the only act of "kindness" towards Catholic's, that I can find - from my point of view.

Now, the Protestantism and Irish National Catholicism clash in my DNA, I swear it battles my Fitzgerald DNA. It's probably why I try to rhetorically argue with myself on my thoughts.

I give you :
Protestant                                                                         Catholic & Young Irelander (Nationalist)
Sir Edward Newenham MP (6th GGF)           and           Thomas MacNevin Esq (4th GGUncle)
 

Portrait is from the National Gallery of Ireland
CLICK HERE TO GO THERE


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by Stories Of My Irish Families Thursday, July 09, 2015 No comments

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