Part 1 - Y-DNA and the Irish Fitzgerald connection.
About 10-11 Months have passed, quite a lot of data has been collated, but still not fully understood (would have to be a professor to understand it?). But it has shone a light, that I am on to something, quite extraordinary, particularly heading to my Paternal heritage.
In essence, I initially used the DNA to trace connections to my Maternal heritage, but after a while it seemed to become stonewalled, because I could not connect with surety, of other Family DNA matches other than the Irish "Galway" Persse family.
I had no other people who I could communicate with, on known paperwork and how their lines integrated.
There were some Maternal lines names that showed what I thought was a connection, but I couldn't show how.
As I was stonewalled a bit, I took a step back and reevaluated how else I could bridge this wall.
The only way I knew how, even though it was starting from scratch again, was to see if I could connect my Paternal line to my Maternal line, using methods that I learned from checking one family. It sounds simple, but trust me, it isn't.
And the concept now, is to use the Y-DNA to see if I can use a point of reference to come back to my Maternal lines. As a side note, the connection could also lie within my Father's Maternal line, as that was Irish/English (Autosomal).
I wanted to see how much of this "dynastical" Fitzgerald family, I have in me.
The most interesting thing that shows quite a bit of a trend and that it's kinda weird, is that my Maternal and Paternal lines have very strong Irish connectivity, I am seeing a flip flop of connections.
That is, what names connect up on my Father's side, finds a connection to my Mother's DNA.
And what names my Mother's side has, shows up connecting with my Father's DNA.
I suppose in a way, the surname "Fitzgerald", was aptly known for being "More Irish than the Irish". Ha!
For instance, a person named 'Butler' in my Autosomal DNA, seems to have connection with my Father's name (in medieval times - The Fitzgerald's vs The Butler's) and shows some DNA segments in close comparison to the Paternal line, but yet the Autosomal DNA is through my Mother.
My Mother and Myself match the same 'Butler', but yet the DNA segments mimic that Paternal pattern. The 'Butler', is not an Autosomal match to my Father.
And in the vice-versa situation, based on some of my Autosomal, Y-DNA and mtDNA, 3 O'Driscoll's that match Myself and my Father on the Autosomal DNA around 3rd cousins, show up in my mtDNA (Maternal only DNA) at the 3rd Genetic Distance. What!!??
How can 3 Autosomal Paternal line matches also match to your Direct Maternal lineage?
I am suspecting a connection by the MacCarthy clan here, most possibly of the West Cork/Kerry regions, as on both sides of my parents, they share minor Autosomal matches to different MacCarthy's.
On my Father's Maternal line (Humphries Line), he has a known "Lismore" - MacCarthy link there. This should not affect the Y-DNA, but rather to show up as an Autosomal match? (if that logic holds??)
I haven't found a direct paternal line MacCarthy yet. But I do know there is known Fitzgerald/MacCarthy (Earls of Kildare Lineage) historical ties to one another. I haven't found if we fit into this category yet.
There is also, quite a remarkable connection to the far West Cork area.
Around the Skibbereen district. It involves the O'Shea's and the Collins families.
The Collins name, is on my Father's Direct Maternal line and is supposed to be of English origin, however the DNA is showing more of a "Native" Irish connection, rather than a Normandy/French one. Wow!
The O'Shea's are also part of the South Irish group.
Anyway, what is remarkable so far, is the Y-DNA is showing quite the guiding light.
It isn't the bright white-guiding light, with an angelic figure to guide me the way in a dark tunnel type of thing, but rather a dim frosted - hazy glass light in a dark tunnel laced with a misty fog. Still feeling my way round the tunnel, but I can see where I need to go.
It has revealed that I am of the "South Irish" DNA group. It is also known as "Irish Type II" or CTS4466 Y-DNA Haplogroup.
It is predominantly based around the area known as 'Munster'.
Somehow my ancestors mingled with families in this area. Along the lines of the MacCarthy / O'Sullivan (or connotations to the Eóghanacht native dynasties) and their absorbed clans, it also seems by historical knowledge that my ancestors were most possibly, of the Desmond Geraldine's and they too, somehow became absorbed with this Munster MacCarthy / O'Sullivan connection.
What came of light within the last couple of weeks, is that my lineage mingled closely, with an O'Hearn/Ahearn/Ahern (+ many other variants) family.
In this CTS4466 group, I am of the SNP of A195+, which seems to connect with the O'Hearn's, but it is, only at the 9th Genetic Distance. As yet, Myself or my Father, have no Autosomal DNA match to the O'Hearn (+ Variant) name. But many people around this CTS4466 group, do share Autosomal matches with Myself & my Father, so it compounds the Y-DNA story, that indeed my Y-DNA is of the South Irish. But is the above Y-DNA set to a time period? I am not sure, but it seems to be centered around the 1300's (educated guess). The CTS4466 DNA group, goes on to a much earlier time period - well before 1000 AD.
As I am supposed to be descendant of the Norman Invasion, I suppose I can only be classified as CTS4466 "Native Irish" from before 1169 AD - logical deduction. The Norman domination worked it's way into Munster around 1177 AD.
And my interpretation of this CTS4466, shows it's predominately centered around the 6th/7th Genetic Distance on my Y-67 Marker.
*As a side note in history, the 2 half brothers - FitzGerald/Fitz Stephen, initially raided Ireland in 1169 AD, the Strongbow/Fitzgerald invasion, wasn't until 1171 AD. And the push to Western Cork with the MacCarthy's was around 1177 AD.
What is really interesting on the Y-67, is at the 5th Genetic Distance, it shows a much different scenario.
That is, it shows a weird Scottish, maybe Welsh connection. Davis/Davies and a Caldwell/Colwell seems to dominate this era.
Almost like a line in the sand, we have an ancient connection to the Munster people, but a closer tie to some Scottish/Welsh connections. Based at Northern Ireland (Co. Donegal is mentioned quiet a bit).
Back to the stronger Y-DNA connection, there is some information regarding this O'Hearn family, together with the Desmond Fitzgerald's and Lord Roche based on Military ties in the medieval times.
Some other information ties these 2 families up, but it's still not confirmed which Desmond Fitzgerald this was. Maybe somewhere around the 4-6th Earl?
Some of my information is based upon Dr Paul MacCotter's research.
But due to the fluctuating marriages of the Fitzgerald's in the medieval times - i.e intermarrying between the factions, we could possibly have this issue in my DNA.
And could well be steering me into a promising lead, albeit not the most dominant connection. So in essence, I could be off a Desmond Fitzgerald line, but could have been tainted with a Kildare-ian, White Knight or Knights of Kerry line that could be steering me on a smaller connection, rather than to find the true Paternal lineage.
My Direct Maternal (Irish) lineage is laced with 'intermarrying' cousins - (Persse/Newenham), so I suppose it's only fair for the Paternal to get involved as well. Who would have thought.
This is a Paternal hypothesis, but my Maternal knowledge has taught me to be wary of this problem.
Now, some other weird unconfirmed documentation, supports a hypothesis, that in more recent times, this Fitzgerald / Ahern family mingled.
As I have found a land lease regarding, on what is regarded to possibly be a Fitzgerald connection.
It shows a Thomas Fitzgerald leasing land of the Smith/Ahern family in 1826, on the South Eastern side of Cork City.
It does not show if this is a connection to my line, other than that I can place my 4th GGF in Cork City at the time (he would have been around 16 at the time of this lease date - can a 16 year old own/rent/lease land?)
My Fitzgerald lineage goes back to Cork City, with association to being in the Carpentry (or a Wheelwright?) trade. I know there is listings for 2 or 3 Fitzgerald's around Evergreen Road around the 1830's and that they had been Carpenter's, but I still have not proven if there is connection to these Fitzgerald's.
There is a Irish Birth Record, showing my 4th GGF was born under the Catholic Church (Dunbar Street - South Parish), but swapped religions for the C of I when he got married in the 1837 era (this is suspected, as the note of marriage in the Casey Collection, does not define the Church, but mentions that "Marriages not mainly of Catholic" - That's a great analogy isn't it).
Thomas and Eliza (Elizabeth) Fitzgerald traveled to Australia around the 1841 era. They were noted as under the Protestant Church of St. James in Sydney, Australia by 1841/1842 era. And that his descendants stayed that way until my Great Grandfather swapped us back to the Catholic side. Funnily enough, he married a Sheehan (believe she may have been the driving force of the Catholic swap over?). The Sheehan name is showing signs of a West Cork connection.
The search continues.
About 10-11 Months have passed, quite a lot of data has been collated, but still not fully understood (would have to be a professor to understand it?). But it has shone a light, that I am on to something, quite extraordinary, particularly heading to my Paternal heritage.
In essence, I initially used the DNA to trace connections to my Maternal heritage, but after a while it seemed to become stonewalled, because I could not connect with surety, of other Family DNA matches other than the Irish "Galway" Persse family.
I had no other people who I could communicate with, on known paperwork and how their lines integrated.
There were some Maternal lines names that showed what I thought was a connection, but I couldn't show how.
As I was stonewalled a bit, I took a step back and reevaluated how else I could bridge this wall.
The only way I knew how, even though it was starting from scratch again, was to see if I could connect my Paternal line to my Maternal line, using methods that I learned from checking one family. It sounds simple, but trust me, it isn't.
And the concept now, is to use the Y-DNA to see if I can use a point of reference to come back to my Maternal lines. As a side note, the connection could also lie within my Father's Maternal line, as that was Irish/English (Autosomal).
I wanted to see how much of this "dynastical" Fitzgerald family, I have in me.
The most interesting thing that shows quite a bit of a trend and that it's kinda weird, is that my Maternal and Paternal lines have very strong Irish connectivity, I am seeing a flip flop of connections.
That is, what names connect up on my Father's side, finds a connection to my Mother's DNA.
And what names my Mother's side has, shows up connecting with my Father's DNA.
I suppose in a way, the surname "Fitzgerald", was aptly known for being "More Irish than the Irish". Ha!
For instance, a person named 'Butler' in my Autosomal DNA, seems to have connection with my Father's name (in medieval times - The Fitzgerald's vs The Butler's) and shows some DNA segments in close comparison to the Paternal line, but yet the Autosomal DNA is through my Mother.
My Mother and Myself match the same 'Butler', but yet the DNA segments mimic that Paternal pattern. The 'Butler', is not an Autosomal match to my Father.
And in the vice-versa situation, based on some of my Autosomal, Y-DNA and mtDNA, 3 O'Driscoll's that match Myself and my Father on the Autosomal DNA around 3rd cousins, show up in my mtDNA (Maternal only DNA) at the 3rd Genetic Distance. What!!??
How can 3 Autosomal Paternal line matches also match to your Direct Maternal lineage?
I am suspecting a connection by the MacCarthy clan here, most possibly of the West Cork/Kerry regions, as on both sides of my parents, they share minor Autosomal matches to different MacCarthy's.
On my Father's Maternal line (Humphries Line), he has a known "Lismore" - MacCarthy link there. This should not affect the Y-DNA, but rather to show up as an Autosomal match? (if that logic holds??)
I haven't found a direct paternal line MacCarthy yet. But I do know there is known Fitzgerald/MacCarthy (Earls of Kildare Lineage) historical ties to one another. I haven't found if we fit into this category yet.
There is also, quite a remarkable connection to the far West Cork area.
Around the Skibbereen district. It involves the O'Shea's and the Collins families.
The Collins name, is on my Father's Direct Maternal line and is supposed to be of English origin, however the DNA is showing more of a "Native" Irish connection, rather than a Normandy/French one. Wow!
The O'Shea's are also part of the South Irish group.
Anyway, what is remarkable so far, is the Y-DNA is showing quite the guiding light.
It isn't the bright white-guiding light, with an angelic figure to guide me the way in a dark tunnel type of thing, but rather a dim frosted - hazy glass light in a dark tunnel laced with a misty fog. Still feeling my way round the tunnel, but I can see where I need to go.
It has revealed that I am of the "South Irish" DNA group. It is also known as "Irish Type II" or CTS4466 Y-DNA Haplogroup.
It is predominantly based around the area known as 'Munster'.
Somehow my ancestors mingled with families in this area. Along the lines of the MacCarthy / O'Sullivan (or connotations to the Eóghanacht native dynasties) and their absorbed clans, it also seems by historical knowledge that my ancestors were most possibly, of the Desmond Geraldine's and they too, somehow became absorbed with this Munster MacCarthy / O'Sullivan connection.
What came of light within the last couple of weeks, is that my lineage mingled closely, with an O'Hearn/Ahearn/Ahern (+ many other variants) family.
In this CTS4466 group, I am of the SNP of A195+, which seems to connect with the O'Hearn's, but it is, only at the 9th Genetic Distance. As yet, Myself or my Father, have no Autosomal DNA match to the O'Hearn (+ Variant) name. But many people around this CTS4466 group, do share Autosomal matches with Myself & my Father, so it compounds the Y-DNA story, that indeed my Y-DNA is of the South Irish. But is the above Y-DNA set to a time period? I am not sure, but it seems to be centered around the 1300's (educated guess). The CTS4466 DNA group, goes on to a much earlier time period - well before 1000 AD.
As I am supposed to be descendant of the Norman Invasion, I suppose I can only be classified as CTS4466 "Native Irish" from before 1169 AD - logical deduction. The Norman domination worked it's way into Munster around 1177 AD.
And my interpretation of this CTS4466, shows it's predominately centered around the 6th/7th Genetic Distance on my Y-67 Marker.
*As a side note in history, the 2 half brothers - FitzGerald/Fitz Stephen, initially raided Ireland in 1169 AD, the Strongbow/Fitzgerald invasion, wasn't until 1171 AD. And the push to Western Cork with the MacCarthy's was around 1177 AD.
What is really interesting on the Y-67, is at the 5th Genetic Distance, it shows a much different scenario.
That is, it shows a weird Scottish, maybe Welsh connection. Davis/Davies and a Caldwell/Colwell seems to dominate this era.
Almost like a line in the sand, we have an ancient connection to the Munster people, but a closer tie to some Scottish/Welsh connections. Based at Northern Ireland (Co. Donegal is mentioned quiet a bit).
Back to the stronger Y-DNA connection, there is some information regarding this O'Hearn family, together with the Desmond Fitzgerald's and Lord Roche based on Military ties in the medieval times.
Some other information ties these 2 families up, but it's still not confirmed which Desmond Fitzgerald this was. Maybe somewhere around the 4-6th Earl?
Some of my information is based upon Dr Paul MacCotter's research.
But due to the fluctuating marriages of the Fitzgerald's in the medieval times - i.e intermarrying between the factions, we could possibly have this issue in my DNA.
And could well be steering me into a promising lead, albeit not the most dominant connection. So in essence, I could be off a Desmond Fitzgerald line, but could have been tainted with a Kildare-ian, White Knight or Knights of Kerry line that could be steering me on a smaller connection, rather than to find the true Paternal lineage.
My Direct Maternal (Irish) lineage is laced with 'intermarrying' cousins - (Persse/Newenham), so I suppose it's only fair for the Paternal to get involved as well. Who would have thought.
This is a Paternal hypothesis, but my Maternal knowledge has taught me to be wary of this problem.
Now, some other weird unconfirmed documentation, supports a hypothesis, that in more recent times, this Fitzgerald / Ahern family mingled.
As I have found a land lease regarding, on what is regarded to possibly be a Fitzgerald connection.
It shows a Thomas Fitzgerald leasing land of the Smith/Ahern family in 1826, on the South Eastern side of Cork City.
It does not show if this is a connection to my line, other than that I can place my 4th GGF in Cork City at the time (he would have been around 16 at the time of this lease date - can a 16 year old own/rent/lease land?)
My Fitzgerald lineage goes back to Cork City, with association to being in the Carpentry (or a Wheelwright?) trade. I know there is listings for 2 or 3 Fitzgerald's around Evergreen Road around the 1830's and that they had been Carpenter's, but I still have not proven if there is connection to these Fitzgerald's.
There is a Irish Birth Record, showing my 4th GGF was born under the Catholic Church (Dunbar Street - South Parish), but swapped religions for the C of I when he got married in the 1837 era (this is suspected, as the note of marriage in the Casey Collection, does not define the Church, but mentions that "Marriages not mainly of Catholic" - That's a great analogy isn't it).
Thomas and Eliza (Elizabeth) Fitzgerald traveled to Australia around the 1841 era. They were noted as under the Protestant Church of St. James in Sydney, Australia by 1841/1842 era. And that his descendants stayed that way until my Great Grandfather swapped us back to the Catholic side. Funnily enough, he married a Sheehan (believe she may have been the driving force of the Catholic swap over?). The Sheehan name is showing signs of a West Cork connection.
The search continues.
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